I think range work rate can be reverted as a civ bonus.
Arrowslits is free.
How is that going to work for civs that don’t have Arrowslits?
The same way the Franks’ team bonus works for civs who don’t have knights.
So you just nerf the Britons when they should not be nerfed.
The Longbowman replacing the Crossbowman is not only for the historical accuracy and flavor but also can able to generally keep the performance of the current Archer line meanwhile bring something new and solve the meaningless competition between Longbow and Crossbow.
I prefer more difference over directly replacement.
Civilization Bonus
Foot Archer +1/+2 range in Castle/Imperial Age → Tower +1/+2 attack in Castle/Imperial Age.
Unique Units
Longbowman - Archer can be upgraded to Longbowman instead of Crossbowman.
Longbowman old stat → Longbowman new stat (Xbow, Arbalester stat)
Upgrade cost and time - 150food/175gold, 40 seconds (175food/125gold, 35 seconds)
Elite Longbowman cost and time 850food/850gold, 60 seconds → 400food/600 gold, 45 seconds (450food/400gold, 50 seconds)
Training time 18 seconds → 25 seconds (27 seconds)
Range 5, 6 → 6, 7 (5)
Attack 6, 7 → 5, 6 (5, 6)
Attack bonus vs spearman +2 → +3 (+3)
Accuracy 70%, 80% → 80%, 90% (85%, 90%)
Attack Delay 0.5 → 0.35 (0.35)
LOS 7, 8 → 8, 9
[Elite Longbowman having 1PA is unchanged]
Billman - An infantry unit with attack bonus vs cavalry.
Cost: 35food/40gold
Training Time: 10 seconds
HP: 75, 90
Attack: 10, 12
Attack Bonus: +5, +8 vs cavalry, +3, +5 vs camel, +12, +15 vs elephant
ROF: 2.0
Melee Armor: 2, 4
Pierce Armor: 1
Speed: 1.10
LOS: 5, 6
Upgrade Cost and Time: 900food/550gold, 45 seconds
Unique Technology
Yeoman: Towers no longer get the extra attack. Cost and time reduced 750wood/450gold, 60 seconds → 600wood/400gold, 50 seconds
So range is capped at 11 as current Briton arbalest?
Why though? They have FU infantry now but never had any element that points toward militia line. @UpmostRook9474 and me want a new infantry UU though.
I really hate repeating bonus. Glad that Saracens was reworked along with Persians.
Now nobody risks to exploit it because of the (put a cursed word here) pathing.
Tower +1/+2 attack in Castle/Imperial Age.
But why?
The answer is always “It depends”.
None. Also 12 range from archery range units is too powerful.
Making longbow more similar to its own arbalest seems less unique. How about remove anti-spear bonus and allow 100% damage for missed shot?
Yes. This one is also the one that I think is the most suitable as a civ bonus among those candidates.
I personally very like making Villagers able to shoot arrows after Yeomen is researched. It’s interesting and historical accurate.
I don’t mind having them only have 11 range, but I think a lot of people will miss having 12 range Longbowmen. Maybe the Longbow upgrade won’t provide shorter training time that is like the Crossbow upgrade, and the Elite Longbow upgrade won’t provide the +1 attack that is like the Arbalester upgrade, so they can be allowed to have 12 range when they are fully upgraded.
This somewhat prevents the Billman from becoming a super unit.
In my imagination, their HP, attack (including base and bonus), armor and speed make them very powerful against cavalry, but also have good survivability against infantry and ranged units.
If they are not as good as Halberdiers against elephants, then at least it gives Halberdiers a value and role to be used, and the Halberdiers can be kept in the tech tree.
(Sorry if my English is not good.)
I see a lot of people using them. Every 2 or 3 games I play I always end up playing someone who plays Britons. I mainly play Bengals and they are a civ that has a serious disadvantage against them if they don’t attack quickly and efficiently, so when I see them, believe me, I see them a lot because I know the game will get tough if I don’t hurry.
But you won’t have Arbalester any more anyway.
100% damage on missed shot from 11 range will be devastating.
Okay. I see no problem with it. And what historical accurate is that? I can remember that AoE4 English have or had similar bonus.
I don’t know. In that case, Elite Longbow man that will replace Arbalester need to have a ridiculously huge upgrade cost. They will already have 6 base attack instead of 7. I believe an unit that can be trained from 175 wood building outranging a generic Castle will always be a bad idea.
You can check out mines.
Fair concern. But gold vs no gold is already enough to force a player to come up with a decision. I don’t see Incas Halb as a bad unit in any means, not even when they didn’t have the food discount.
Yet your proposed changes are cancelling the characteristics of longbowman, which is iconic to Britons. I think the slow transition of xbow to elite longbow is the intented design. All archer UU transition is slow but become more powerful in long term. The slow transition is also historically accurate. “To train a longbowman, you start with his grandfather.”
This is super anti-raid and far better than supremacy. There is a video in Wololoo youtube channel showing this.
They hit their target 70/80% at range and this should not be devastating. This is far from massed Arambai.
Medieval England established policies and laws to encourage commoners (yeomen) to practice archery in peacetime, and even banned games that would cause “the decay of archery.”
The Crossbowman have 5 base attack, so the Longbowman and the Elite should have just 5 base attack too as long as the Elite upgrade doesn’t provide +1 attack that is like the Arbalester upgrade.
As long as the Longbowman upgrade and the Elite upgrade do not provide improvements in attack, training time and accuracy, they (whether elite or not) will need 35 secs to train (ignore the team bonus) and have 5 base attack and 80% accuracy. I think in this case, it might be acceptable that an expensive UT make they end up with 12 range at a cost of 25 wood and 45 gold. I even think it’s probably acceptable to have the Elite upgrade provide +1 attack.
What if when the Villagers shoot arrows just like they hunt?
3 pierce attack, 4 range, unaffected by any techs like the Fletching line and Chemisty.
How? You still get way more range over generic archer line.
My Longbowman is a redesigned xbowman.
Honestly I’m not sure. I don’t like 100% stray damage anyway.
What is the difference between the proposed longbowman and the current Briton arbalester? This is simply just a reskin of arbalest.
Why should it be very different?
Giving the generic Archer line a lot of extra range with the civ bonus is diluting the characteristic of Longbowman. They made Britons’ Archer line look like it was just a Longbowman replica. We are just going to merging the two long range archers so that civ bonus and such a replica would be no longer needed and the civ can have something new.
After the replacement, the fully upgraded Elite Longbowman would have 12 range, 5 or 6 attack, 80% accuracy, and 35 seconds of training time. It can be said that it trades 8 seconds longer training time and possible 1 lower attack for 1 more range than the Britons Arbalester.
Strictly speaking, those are differences, but I think the more difference is the introduction of the new UU, which can make the civ more rich and fresh so that this civ will no longer just have long range archers and… long range archers.
Thanks for all the responses.
I think Britons are a very classic and kind of unique civ in AoE2 so I would not really like a full rework of them, just a little new flavour.
I like the idea with the Billman as a second unique unit very much. It would give the Britons antoher option besides archers, gives them a new touch without changing their identity too much, and would give them a little more historical accuracy.
Alternatively, you can give Yeoman as a second Unique Unit for the Britons civ.
Faster training time (Ahistorical) and +1PA.
Yeah if you neglect small stat difference.
I’m not understanding you here. If I merge both Britons Xbow (Arb) and Longbow into 1 unit that trains from Archery Range, how else the new unit can look different?
I think longer training time for Archers goes against Britons identity. This is their 2nd identity after long range foot archers. And I disagree to the point that extra range needs to outrange generic Castle. It will be a similar case to “Obsidian Arrow”. Not like totally uncounterable, but very very annoying and frustrating to deal with. And let’s be honest, had the tech was for Plumed Archer instead of generic archer line, it wouldn’t be hated as much.
Interesting. How would that unit look like? A villager that can also fight better than Spanish Supremacy villager? Or a relatively weak archer that can also work as a farmer?