Buff Kipchaks/Cuman CA

Additional arrows aside, not only do they lack Bracer, the Kipchaks have zero armor. They are ok in the early game but the lack of aforementioned tech and lack of armor makes them weak in Cav Archer wars in Imperial Age.

Steppe Husbandry only increases creation speed, and still no Bracer.

If the Cumans were to have a buff, would you:

  1. give +3 attack to CA to make them more viable
  2. give +1 attack/range or 0/1 MA/PA to the Kipchak?
2 Likes

Kipchaks are cheap and they have additional arrows causing more damage.
They are supposed to have a shorter range to be weak against archers. Just don’t use them against other archers.

If it were to be changed, I always think the Cuman Mercenaries should be adjusted.
People always don’t remember or aren’t willing to research it, even if it’s cost-effective. Even when researched, allies always forget or ignore the free Kipchaks in Castles.

5 Likes

New UT turns cuman camels to trash unit maybe.

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Or maybe Steppe Husbandry turns camel units into trash?

The Cumans are built to avalanche on people before techs like Bracer are relevant. This is not possible on some maps, where Paladin play may be a valid alternative if not transition. Kips are not great individually, but they do fit the bill for the avalanche play.

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Cuman Mercenaries is really easy to forget.

What if rather than needing to build them, they just spawned garrisoned in every castle? That way even if you forget them completely you at least get extra arrows from the castle.

The only problem might be pop cap, but you could always just delete them if necessary.

Were they really famous for their use of camels?
This sounds more like something suitable for a Saharan civilization, such as Kanembu.

Really nice idea. That’s exactly what I wanted to suggest.

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Persians was not renowned for their xbow either. I am sure that Britons and Italians are not suitable to have trash xbow. For the sake of balance, without heavy camel upgrade, trash camel would be ok

I don’t think adding more damage to kipchak is a good way to buff them. They do less damage per arrow but they are very good at dealing with siege units, especially ram due to extra arrows and they are much cheaper to mass.

If you want to buff them, just make it so that elite kipchak has another +1 range to compensate for the lack of bracer’s range increase and that’s it, no more.

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No.

The Kipchak is very, very cheap, which makes it rather easy to mass, and in mass it is an exceptional unit.

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One could also make their Gold cost into food or wood, and lose last armor, bloodlines and blast furnace, and even heavy camel would be ok i guess.

We already have heavy camel missing bloodlines and blast furnace with 25% cheaper cost, so this would lose and added tech and have full cost but rebalanced into no Gold.

If I were to choose in between these two options, I’ll pick #1. However I have something else in my mind.

Well, the crossbowmen refer to and represent their foot archers, not just the crossbows, so that could be fine.
But the camels, it is hard to say it represent any other else rather than… camels. You know.

I am not convinced that Cumans or kipchacks should get buffed.

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Why not their CA? It is really a sad thing to see fastest moving and fastest training CA goes to total waste.

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Just give alternative CA upgrade to cumans, somewhat like winged hussar then.

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What’s the point of 2 CA UU for same civ? You need to differentiate their role.

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There will be one more range and attack than usual HCA at least to compensate bracer. Generic FU CA is already quite different from kipchak imo. CA has better range and durability so they can fight archers better while kipchak can deal with high PA target and siege +kipchak has lower gold cost.

I think just let the Cuman Mercenaries directly garrison the free Kipchaks into Castles rather than waiting for training and gives the generic CAs +1 range. That’s enough.

The +1 range may encourage the player to research it in the 1v1 game. Their CAs can be trained faster, move faster, have same range, but 1 attack less than the fully upgraded generic CAs.

I disagree. CA and Kipchak are not that different in role. Short range is not a difference for Cumans as their CA is also short range. Also the whole point of this thread is to change the UT. Even if you give them a 2nd CA type UU, this UT will still be pretty niche.

1 Like