you can still do that as is though.
But they are still missing the last armor upgrade which is huge.
I don’t think they perform with this trample dmg much better vs helbs…and for raids it won’t be that op either…then i prefer the last armor upgrade more.
Also having no helbs against cav sucks. So i still disagree with this.
1 Like
and as you pointed out their halbs are still strong despite that.
obviously not, but its going to perform great in mass battles.
well yeah i wasn’t referring to raiding though - i was talking pure trash wars, or heck, they will still perform well against most units that aren’t halbs.
there pikes will hold up fine against everything but paladins and frankly that isn’t what people are talking about when they say trash wars
With “they are still missing the last armor upgrade” i was referring to poles cav.
If trashwar is for you only Hussar vs hussar on open field…then yeah, maybe they are strong…but i think there are more aspects than that…i mean have meso civs literally 0 trash cause they don’t have hussars?
Sure, but I don’t know how excellent their trash in now with the nerfed halb.
+2 pierce armour halb would be really strong and if Lithuanians were going to be buffed then I’d want something different than cavalry to be buffed.
Something that would give more varied strong options rather than a singular strong option.
considering they literally get super cheap knights and light cav that have trample damage and bonus damage against archers, there is probably a reason for that
no, but again - the hussar is the most important unit when it comes to trash wars.
literally widely acknowledged that meso civs have crap late games because of this.
2 Likes
Is this true?
I thought it was just gunpowder.
Poles TB is that Scout-Cav line does +1 Bonus dmg vs Archer-line – pretty nice bonus imo
1 Like
look at the team bonus - scouts get +1 dmg vs archers.
aah I forgot about the team bonus, I was thinking about unit specific bonuses
Revert the changes made and remove the extra +150f as well the extra speed and Tower Shields effect on Halbs, remove fast fire ship and Cannon Galleon though.
Or just make them only get plus 2 damage from relics. Only need 2 relics needed then. Still be great. Plus 4 is silly. That way, they can keep blast furnace.
2 Likes
so they would have no economy bonus?
is the purpose of all this to make them terrible?
so they get +2 max, on a deniable bonus that can be lost, while other civs get +2 armor for free, +3 attack for free, and +3/+4 attack for the cost of a tech. see my issue with this?
deniable bonus and it can be lost as well - clearly high risk high reward.
In team games they get them very easily. Super paladins quite easy there.
Alternatively give them the final infantry armor upgrade so they can have super trash in the late game. I dunno, if that would be broken or not.
1 Like
and yet franks are still the prefered cavalry civ - what does that say?
which does them nothing in team games - which is where they were nerfed the hardest.
frankly i don’t think we have had enough time yet to determine what needs to be changed.
They are just easier to play. Don’t need to learn how to contest relics to play Franks. I mean you should learn how to contest relics in general, but the lower the elo goes the less important this becomes.
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
1 Like
even at the highest levels franks are more preferred team game civ then Lithuanians.
unintended pun. either way - after these changes i don’t think Lithuanians will need further changes.
do i like how they nerfed them? heck no. i think either reducing food bonus or throwing a reduced starting wood would have been a better nerf.
Force of habit? I think there are a lot of things older players do that just come out of habit (in my case, sometimes forgetting that auto-reseed farm exists)
I hope they just consult pros about civ balancing because these changes would be terrible
1 Like
eh, i would expect the pros force of habbit to be to pick what works - look how fast cumans and persians were dropped post nerf.
actually auto reseed isn’t always a good thing to use - most pros don’t even use it until some time in late castle or early imp.
with his nerfs they wouldn’t be a very good civ period - no economy bonus at all means no early feudal, no hybrid map specialty, nothing.