Buffs for the terribly weak Bengalis and Dravidians

I think they should make EA as their primary units in some cases. Also armored elephant, a siege unit getting healed for free (after the tech) is quite useful. If Dravs get an answer to siege, I can live with Medical Corps. Still the value need to be buffed though.

No please. Not anymore mechanics to Urumi.


Against Turks maybe…otherwise almost never.

Just compensates for missing plate barding armor against all melee units.

At -60% EA would cost 90f 36g, Battle Elephant 120f 36g and armored elephant 130f 38g
At -40% EA would cost 90f 42g, Battle Elephant 120f 42g and armored elephant 130f 57g without Husbandry, bloodlines, the elite upgrade and the last cavalry armor I think that -40/-60 (or something in between) could be viable. After all Malay EBE costs 72f 42g and it misses another armor and bloodlines, but has husbandry and the elite upgrade.

1 Like

if they have pikes or gunpowder + monks + siege you’re pretty much already dead and that 500 resources wouldn’t have helped you.

that to me seems more like a failure to scout and plan and you should be punished for that. but hey, you do you. your situations are so niche that it seems more like bad play then anything else.

that to me seems like it could be pretty busted for their elephant archers.

1 Like

That will be OP for EA. Laughs in Skirmishers as much as you want in 1v1, but in TG skirmisher is not an option. I’m okay with other 2. Maybe Armored elephant will be their answer to siege. 11

And here’s another problem with this forum… Why do you guys struggle so much with reading? Why does anyone explain anything if you have made your mind up before reading anything?

We just come here to vomit words? With no fore thought and no effort to try to understand anyone else… Just vomit words

Read it

And instead your proposition is to make a stupidly OP, impossible tech to balance!?!?

How does any other elephant civ stand a chance of having viable elephants if they need to be balanced around this UT? Which will more than likely only have an effect on TGs, because FOOD is the biggest drawback on eles. How do you avoid trash OP elephants in TGs? And all elephants?

And then laughably you can’t begin to comprehend how strong my urumi actually is. It kills vils faster than SL for a fraction of the cost and you think it’s too weak!? While proposing an OP AF tech? :joy::rofl: Did you also think ghulams were too weak? Or siege elephant wouldn’t be used due to their pike weakness?! :rofl::joy:

I do agree though. hill forts is more viable than many other UTs, it’s mainly only because it’s on an aggressive civ that we don’t see it as much. For example on Celts or goths would potentially be seen much more due to their lack of mobility or even something like cumans.

Bengalis increase the bonus damage from -25% to -50% (I would add free Husbandry as well)
Dravidians EA cheaper (or produce faster) about 20/30% in Castle/Imperial Age (maybe too OP)

Its elephant archers, the worst unit for all formats except BF4v4 and that too without husbandry, bloodlines and parthian tactics. So no, it won’t be busted but at that cost it won’t be a complete garbage and will be usable in more situations.

well it is niche but my point being it’s still useful in one out of hundred games unlike medical corps which is never useful.

No. I’ll repeat it again, your proposal of a unit with a cost of 35/35 but 2 base attack and rof of 1.0 is the actual vomit. The concept of uu that’s fast with bonus damage against vills and siege is okish but the generic dps is too low and doesn’t justify the cost or the overhead of a castle. I read that the unit kills vills as fast as a knight does but when it has such poor base attack you can’t fight any other military units which opponent uses for defense. So this becomes more like a throw away unit used only to raid and snipe unprotected siege like light cavalry are. 35 gold is way too much for that. I hope you don’t assume people aren’t reading your idea and understand the actual flaw in your proposal.

Poles get such a UT on the second best unit line for TG - the Knights, have amazing eco bonus much stronger than Dravidians and still people pick Franks or Lithuanians more often than Poles. The reason being that the bonus is from UT and is unavailable till mid game and once game moves to imperial age in TG, the discount becomes not so great as they lack plate barding armor and can’t fight against big armies of Arbalesters and Paladin even if you outnumber them. So it’s a bonus with a time window to shine in TG and is more useful for 1v1s.
Its not like I proposed such a tech for Burmese or Khmer or Bengalis which have good elephants.
Dravidians elephants are almost useless with no husbandry in castle age and missing armor in imperial age. Their siege elephants are worse compared to the others as well. The idea of that discount is to make Elephant archers, Siege elephants usable as primary army similar to Malay getting battle elephant discount. So it’s not a broken tech but rather a tech that makes useless units usable.

oh really, oh that’s so… useless. Killing vills faster doesn’t determine the strength of a unit. Shotels kill villagers faster than the proposed unit, cost less gold and are still one of the worst unique units. In general you have to fight against armies with unique units from castle and every unique unit is
very strong against some or the other military units and becomes either a support unit for that civ like throwing, chakrams or their primary unit in imp like most other uu.

Siege elephants from Gurjaras are awesome, from Bengalis are great, usable when mixed with gunpowder units or camels from Hindustanis, nearly useless and not worth the extra 20 gold compared to rams for Dravidians.
Ghulams are great units against meso civs and against archer pike combos in late castle and early imp but fall apart once opponent mixes melee units in good numbers in late game. You don’t have to laugh so hard, they’re just Aztec eagles from castles and not as strong as many melee UUs that came out since DE like Obuchs, Serjeants, Keshiks, Leitis or Coustilliers but they’re quite good because they address the primary weakness their civ has.

So yesterday I came up with an idea for Bengalis.

Civilization Bonus
Archer and Elephant Archer +1 attack starting from Castle Age.
Tech Tree
Arbalester is removed.
Unique Technology
Paik cost reduced 375w, 275g → 300w, 225w
Paik doesn’t affect Elephant Archer

The idea is somewhat similar to Bohemians early chemistry archer play. Except that it is free and will give you a bigger power spike. But in the long term without Arbalester and TR, archer doesn’t have good value.

1 Like

That change would only make Ratha even more preferable to elephants of any kind I think.

Probably. Elephant is not an 1v1 unit anyway. Archer to Ratha transition will be more smooth and castle age awkward situation of not having any military option will be a lot easier.

1 Like

Alternatively, another bonus the Bengalis could get is: Blacksmith upgrades cost 33% less.

Considering that their unique unit is likely the most expensive in the game to fully upgrade and that they’re encouraged to use elephants, cheaper blacksmith upgrades would help them in multiple ways. The cheaper upgrades would help them in each age to get a slight ‘power spike’, without forcing players to use a particular unit. It would also help them save resources which can be used for something else (eco upgrades, more military upgrades, an elephant, etc).

While similar to other civilization’s blacksmith bonuses (Spanish, Chinese, Bulgarians), it’d be different enough to avoid being a copy of any specific bonus. It’s also a bonus that eventually phases out, so Mahayana (-10% villager population space UT) would still function as their primary late game eco bonus.

If a Bengali player were to get all the available Blacksmith upgrades:
The normal cost is 2795 food, 1545 gold.
The 33% reduced cost is 1873 food, 1035 gold; for a total savings of 922 food and 510 gold.
The 33% reduced cost value could be adjusted for balance purposes.

1 Like

This type of bonus is useful for aggressive civs. Civs which have military bonuses, bonuses which help playing aggressively like Malians, Cumans, Huns, Bulgarians and multiple unit options for castle age push- knights, ca, lancers, camels etc. Maybe if they had knights or knight-like units or camels with some bonus or lancers or something like that then this could be a good bonus.

Maybe if this is paired with an option that someone suggested - archers +1 attack from castle age, then it could be somewhat useful.

1 Like