Buildings nerf

Seriously. Scouts every single game, scouts into archers into obliteration (looking at you, Huns). I like to play aggressively and to keep on constant pressure, but this is just plain boring. Often games don’t even go into Castle anymore but get rushed to death because of a snowball in Feudal instead. What could you do against this? Maybe try to defend behind walls? Nah, screw that, those are worthless now.
I get that some people find this exhilarating but I am annoyed that the Meta is constantly being tossed over in favor of people who get off on being as aggressive as possible.
Stop frantically “improving” things in a game that was fine and played for almost two decades.
Maybe stop “balancing” the game in a way that gives advantage to one side but actually balance it?
Here’s an unpopular opinion: Encountering someone who turtles might be annoying, but he is constantly wasting villager time on repairing/building so he is punished economically speaking anyway.

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Except reality shows us that while you may be losing resources (and frankly it’s not that much) it still pays off better to get to castle age faster.

Defensive play is still king of this game.

Or to put it right, you must be the king of the game to get away with greed.

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Thats just your opinion. I’ve seen otherwise. It still takes a committed feudal push to even break palisades and you can easily use thwt time to push out a few defensive units and laugh your way around your opponents army.

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Then what do you as a civ with no eco boni when you are now paying more for walls that are weaker overall defending against a civ with boni? Nuking the defense isn’t really a way to level the playing field, it’s a way to steamroll opponents with all-in-plays.
I’d much prefer an interesting Castle Age with more options and variety over an all out Huns war kind of game.

Statistics (or reality, as you may call it) shows that games got overall shorter since introducing the patch.
And if you ask me, more lopsided.


Do we have stats for comparing the patches?
I would be interested in them.

I’d like your source on this claim
Also almost every civ has a bonus that impacts their economy in one form or another

Playing around on aoe2stats, yes.
Like here for example the winrate of Huns as mention beforehand.

The first one should be overall Elo, the second one is positioned at my Elo range, which I think says more to underline my opinion, speaking from a pleb point of view.
Which clearly shows a markant uptake in Winrate and how the Winrate changes depending how long the match goes.

If Mat doesn’t feel this way, congratulations, I suppose or assume you are way better than I am then. Could also be though, why you say stuff like “reality shows…” reality shows for whom exactly? The likes of the pros? This is just also your opinion aswell.
Would also like a source provided for what reality shows.

That website isn’t actual anymore, it’s like 3-4 patches behind.

Oh really? Haven’t noticed that, my bad. Thanks for pointing that out.

@casusincorrabil is there another side for stats?

That’s the site of @coolios9876 . Sotl recently also made a video about under/ overrated civs using it.

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I see less scouts and more maa archer tbf. I mean if maps are super open and walling gets harder maa pressure is super deadly. Btw pretty strong opening vs scouts. Add one spear and it probably forces opponent to make range.

I thik we learn here that scouts are actually way too expensive in feudal. Befor they were more viable because you wouldn’t make a lot of them, just a few trying to use the mobility to herass the opponent.

With the new feudal agression heavy gameplay archers have been buffed as they already were the “OP” feudal age unit before but because of the insane castle age powerspike they were hold back.

Again, I think we need to learn a lot about the game before we make this kind of changes cause we will often change things we didn’t even expect. I mean it makes sense, 80 F for a unit is just so expensive in feudal, what did we expect? That somebody could flood the map with scouts? How do you even set up the farming eco for that kind of play? even one stable needs 8 farms (480 wood (!)), how it this even supposed to “compete” with something like 2 range archers?
Should actually have thought about it before. Archers are just too powerful in feudal so everything that leads to more heavy feudal play just leads to more and excessive archer openings…

Well we had a similar situation a year or so before DE was out. People did maa all the time (at least on the dry arabia generations).

Fair enough but I really think it’s the aggressive maa openings that leads to this kind of heavy feudal gameplay. For maa doesn’t give you up great eco for quick castle age transition and archers follow more or less natural up to them. In fact vs straight archer opening scout opening is even pretty good while a fast straight archer opening with sufficient preemptive small walls can be good vs maa.

In the end it’s a super thin balancing act. Like make the map open like kotd arabia and you see maa arch mostly. Make it semi closed like first DE arabia and you basically are walled before scouts arrive so people open drush or straight archers.

But maybe what’s even more important: I remember some time ago when arabia was open we saw a lot of drush arch or maa arch openings so at some point in feudal there were a lot of skirms and that lead to scout switches. Although the same sounds plausible nowadays that everyone got so good at wallling that despite open maps and building nerfs you can wall before a scout transition hits.

Repairing a building is not comparable to spend resources on military buildings+military units+walking all the map, repairing function on ao2 is plain wrong, the tc repair is the extreme of punishing and repairing normal buildings are so easy and effective to keep melee units away, forcing ranged options to break in, too much resources to make early damage, that is why hoang rush is so effective, but not everyone is going to fc+full yolo siege push no villagers+market abuse.

I am fine with the nerfs to the walls and houses, next would be to give more negative armor to other buildings but the maps scripts need to be changed, i hate maps like current runestones, a simple archer can reach from behind all the woodline, that is not competitive, you can’t defend all tiny woodlines and gold and farms in the opposite direction, so yeah the counter measure to nerfing defensive normal buildings is to increase the value of real defensive structures by increasing the amount of resources to protect to justify the investment of a tower, also removing the hills on woodlines since the wood is so scarce and far away and you can’t even build a tc to protect your villagers.

One thought is that it could just be a ‘new patch is supposed to be open - lets try scouts/aggression’ kind of mentality right now. Perhaps after people figure out how effective it is or even how much they like it, it will calm down and some people will go back to more often wall FC.

Just like we saw vast majority of players testing out Long Swords when they got their buff, but it calms down after a while.

That doesn’t mean no changes in the long run, but the change is less extreme than the initial rush to test it out implies.