Burgundian bonus is stronger than siege engineers

For anyone that missed it/didnt notice, the burgundia gun bonus applies to their bonus damage as well. So a burgundian BBC does more damage to buildings than a generic BBC + SE.

Same applies for hand cannons, their infantry bonus is also multiplied.


This is true, but all their gunpowder units also have disadvantages compared to generic fully upgraded ones. Their bombard cannons miss out on Siege Engineers, which means they have 1 less range, their Hand Cannoneers miss out on Ring Archer Armor, and their Cannon Galleons miss out on Dry Dock and Shipwright. Still obviously a great benefit since they don’t need to spend resources on those techs, but they are at least somewhat limited in those ways.


Burgundy wouldn’t play on water.

The armour on the HC is almost irrelevant when you should be shielding them and damage is always the superior value on a ranged unit. So they are vastly superior at more than 30% higher effective damage than other HCs vs infantry.

Leaving only the debatable BBC. Briton archers or Ethiopian archers? 100% Free siege engineers which appears immediately and does more damage for the trade off of 1 range…

As I understand, Burgundians have to heavily rely on their Hand Cannons because in Imperial Age they don’t have fully upgraded unit. So using unit with bonus and Unique Unit makes sense.

I personally think new civs has strong early game but weak Late-Game. So Burgundians needs this. Still Spanish faster attacking and Turkish HP and Range better.

1 Like

It is not, the +1 Range from SE is much more relevant than an extra +10 Damage.

I believe this civ will get Siege Engineers and Ring Archer Armor in the longrun.

If the bonus damage is also being multiplied by 30% as well as the base damage their hand cannon is doing 35 damage per shot to infantry and 36 to spearman line infantry before armor reductions and 3.45 game seconds per shot, Spanish hand cannons do 27 to infantry and 28 to spearmen at roughly 3 game seconds per shot, so Burgundian is 10.1 dps to champion 10.4 dps to spearman, Spanish is 9 dps to champion and 9.3 to spearman assuming every shot hits(So obviously proportionally lower for both as hand cannons are not very accurate) - so Spanish faster attacking does not seem better from a pure damage standpoint but the Burgundians aren’t blowing them out of the water either, however Spanish also lack a viable line of archers and need to use hand cannons for substitutes so you could say the Burgundians are getting a better bonus for the same deficit

I don’t think this is making their hand cannons OP, I think you would rather be using arbalests if you had them, also don’t think their gunpowder damage bonus is the part of them that needs a nerf, but they are better than Spanish from a pure damage delivered to target standpoint especially since the extra damage being delivered at once helps to bypass armor reductions


Thanks for this information.

Still Spanish has better tech tree and better late game. And also don’t forget; Burgundians lacks armour even they have just about +1 DPS against infantry (best of Burgundian bonus situation). Spanish hand cannons are better against generic units (no bonus damage) and more durable than Burgundian ones.


and that is vs infantry with only 1 base pierce armour, their dps spikes vs higher PA infantry making them even better at fighting sic, goth and mali

1 Like

This is literally the turk BBC discussion again but this time, a range shorter.

The Burgundian unit will destroy buildings a bit faster, but it’ll have to take longer to get into position and be more vulnerable to units trying to kill them when they do. Being more vulnerable effectively increases it’s cost if your opponent has the capability of pressuring them, and losing BBCs is going to cost you resources and damage in the aggregate. It’ll all come down to micro, but the idea that one is better than the other is not reasonable. It’s a wash. You’ll have fewer fatalities and more consistent damage with the SE BBC, and you’ll have more upfront damage with higher turnover on Burgundy.

“Stronger than siege engineers” isn’t an accurate summary, to say the least. I guess you don’t have to buy the tech, so it’s certainly got distinct value especially in a tight game.


Each and every other Burgundian siege weapon is utter trash as a trade off so that’s pretty fair.


Burgundians BBC deal only an extra 5% for 1 less range than a regular BBC+SE, so it is more a trade-off than a straight upgrade. The bonus has more impact for the HC, especially since Burgundians don’t have a lot of good options outside of cavalry.

1 Like