He just wanted monastery, not monks. I think just early rams balanced, other units aren’t in Feudal. (I forgot existence of Siege Tower)
No, it was to make monks in Feudal. No upgrades though, just monks.
They would win a relic war… but at least in 1on1, that means you’re not really doing anything else with those monks by the time your opponent hits castle. In team games it would be annoying, but again, that means your team just needs to defend relics a bit more than usual. And again, Byz monks are Scout / Light cav bait. They’d need 1-2 spear escorts… which, again, slows the Byz player down with their weaker eco, so it’s a tradeoff and not an instant win button.
Yea, it’s hard to see what would happen in practice. Remember Byz already has no eco bonus, and the thing about early investment in monks is that it either pays off or you’re dead dead dead compared to a fast castle eco boom player.
OTOH, i can definitely see how weaker players would let Byz get a “monk army” up and start picking off small Feudal armies at whim. However, the point is to buff the Byzantines, after all.
So, it would basically be seen as a threefold improvement - a) give Byz a unique offensive/defensive advantage in Feudal, b) give them a potential eco advantage if they can snag the relics faster, c) give them a chance to hold off faster castle rushing players. Once you’re deep in castle age this hypothetical Byz bonus would more or less disappear because mass monks aren’t viable past a certain number of monks and/or mass light cav. Byz are tbh almost as gold dependent as Turks in late game, and Catas are arguably the most expensive unit in the game after upgrades as far as gold is concerned.
OTOH, it might well be too powerful, in the right hands. But it would be a fun change to for the byz to have, make them more powerful, and not be impossible (imo) to balance, and is a relatively easy change to code and make.
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I personally don’t really feel they need a buff, but perhaps something like first tower they build for free? This could lean into their defensive design, as they can defend a gold or woodline without effecting their ability to boom in Castle age.
Regarding the monetary in Feudal, you could make it where monks still can’t convert or pick up relics till castle. Would still give them the ability to heal and move monks out to the relics faster.
People would use this for tower rush.
As soon as Byz. player hit castle, monk(s) would grab relics instantly. And it’s very expensive unit for Feudal Age.
What else should monks do in feudal age except grabbing all the relics? Convert cheap units like archers and trash units? Scouts who counter them? Monks are effective in castle age because they convert costly and powerful units like knights and manganels, units in who doesn’t have a conversion resistance built in like the scouts.
Also, it wouldn’t be only for 1v1, they would be able to grab a lot more relics in TG too. That can be a lot more gold for a civ that also have cheaper trash.
As for defending relics with scouts in feudal, that would mean that the enemy cannot use them to harass you, and all bizzantines would have to do is to send some of their cheap spears with the monk.
Is there necessarily a problem with that?
So your point? You’re saying there would be a benefit as well as a cost for using this strategy? That’s a good thing, every strategy should have a reward if successful and a drawback if not.
I’m just spitballing here though, personally I don’t think they need any buff.
Free atonement would make them incredibly OP and cancer on Arena
What’s the meaning for attacked 10%faster ?they lose to leitis or normal knight without blondline in castle age anyway and also lose to paladin with higher cost. Not mentioned they are already so suck to again any range units
Yeah thats because they are counterd by heavy cav. Its like saying pala is useless cause they lose to camels, who are cheaper and faster. OFC cataphracts lose to pala, they cant kill every single unit in the game 11
Oh,what cataphract can kill? Eagle and some heavy infantry? What else?dead like pig by any range, and more expensive than most of heavy cav?
Or just stop buffing a civ that is already strong enough and have a strong anti-unit identity.
2 Likes
I tried to read most of ideas. Byzantines have nice late game navy but arguable late game. Their unique unit like Mamelukes strong but expensive, I don’t think it needs buff. We can’t give bloodlines, this will make camels strong. Last blacksmith attack upgrade makes Unique Unit too strong and maybe cheaper halberdiers too strong with cheaper skirmishers. I think we can just give one of or some of them;
-Town Patrol is free
-Can research Herbal Medicine
-Can research Sappers
-Can research Heated Shot
-Can research Treadmill Crane
-Can research Siege Engineers
All of them nearly useless but not siege engineers. It will be big buff if some civilization gets siege engineers with Bombard Cannons. I don’t think it’s good.
This is just Tech Tree, I don’t think a nearly balanced civilization needs a civilization bonus gives new mechanic. We can’t give economy bonus to all 35 civilizations and maybe repairing bonus is good (not a lot, a little bit).
Free Town Patrol would be the only good thing imo or probably Heated Shot.
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All infantry, siege, camels and trash units. And while they are more weak to archers, without a meatshield or big big mass of them, they die too, and bizzantines also got cheaper FU skirms too.
So basically yes, they are countered only by heavy cav and some UU.
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What do you mean here? They have cheap Camels and Halbs. Which UUs?
I meant some UU similar to the knight line, like letis, boyars and such…
I’d say the main army of Byzantines are Crossbows(and/or Camels vs Cavalry civs), so Leitis shouldn’t be a problem.
Boyars still die to Camels.
Well, they kill camels, do decent vs halbs, kill every other infantry including UUs, do decent vs every trash unit and surprisingly well vs archers - yes, they lack pa, but their blast damage does wonders vs stacked archers.
And mind you, they dont just win vs infantry - they completly stomp them, 25 catas can take out well over 100 champions.
So yeah, them getting killed by other heavy cav is needed…
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Pogggg, cataphract so strong ,they kill trash units !!! Oh wait,do champions also can handle these???
You decided to just troll after your point was deemed invalid?
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