Byzantines need to lose Bombard Cannons

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@Zelley00

Yes, but “dont want to play as them” either.

I think “I don’t want to play as them” and “I don’t want to play against them” are two very different things. I’m okay with the first, but not okay with the second. The first can be due to a lot of different reasons. You might not find the civ suitable to personal tastes, it might be tough for you to play, it might unrewarding, or you just might not be familiar with the civ.

The second means one of two things. One, you think they are OP, or two, you find it frustrating/annoying to play against them. Neither of those are good. If even a sizable minority of the community things this, a possible change should be considered.

Also, consider the fact that you always get to pick your civ. You don’t get to pick your opponent’s civ. That means you won’t face an issue if you don’t want to play as a civ, but you will face those annoying civs sometimes.

@Zelley00

But Byzantines have good tools to counter the meta plays.

Byzantines have good tools to counter all plays. I can’t think of a single viable non-meta play which would hit their weakness. There might be some weird ones like teutonic tower rush, goth infinite militia rush, or something else. But byzantines won’t be worse against those than most other civs.

@Zelley00

It would be interesting for sure to make a pool “what is the top 3 civs you have the least fun to play against”. I would probably put Khmer first. Then maybe Poles and Gurjaras.

Already done :D.
Didn’t get a lot of replys though.

@Zelley00

Turtling and counter armies are not seen as “lame” by the community, contrary to resource stealing and walling, and maybe tower rushing.

We can also say the same stuff about many civ, like how easy Franks/Huns/Magyars/Khmer/ scout into knights is too easy for them, or how eagles spam makes it too easy to play.

I am not talking about lame strategies, or easy strategies here. I have my bone to pick with franks, because they are frustrating, too. The point here is how annoying byzantines are to play against.

@JokerPenguin593

Byzantines are the “counter” civ. Losing their tool to counter siege (even when they lack siege engineers and have no bonus towards its) would be hurtful for their identity. I don’t like it.

They will still be the counter civ. They’ll just have a slightly harder time countering. I’ll be honest, identity means nothing if it doesn’t work. Identity is always secondary to balance, and at a distant third to fun.

Also, Byzantines have block printing redemption monks. Tell me, what counter will they lack if this goes through?

@NastyHigh

I would be ok with this change if they give them Bloodlines to compensate.

Bloodlines might be too much, especially on catas. We are trying to solve a specific problem here, not give them a general buff. So, the question is, how will this nerf affect them, and what should be done to compensate them in those specific areas. There is no reason to make them even stronger in areas they are already strong in.