What’s even the point of you posting on a forum then? You already made up your mind it seems and you’re deaf to any argument so what do you expect people to do? You always make absolute kind of statements in two lines, three if we’re lucky, while people waste their time proving you dozens of points and counterpoints that you diligently ignore. If you’re on the autistic spectrum don’t bother otherwise a giant question mark.
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Exactly I dunno what elo u play in ranked but camels are one of the most usefull units in game on open maps. When i see knights i immediately think camels, not pikes… Gold is easy to obtain until late game and games rarely get there.
I think we are not thinking the same as we are not playing on the same level or mybe am i wrong? And closed maps are more dominated by choke point play. There mobility is not that important.
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What reasonings?
Half the points are wrong, and neither camel’s expensiveness nor their uselessness on closed maps is addressed.
Another argument missing reasoning.
The more useful cavalry is in the map type, the more useful camel is.
So what is your expected role of camels?
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The prophecy remains true it seems
They can remain the same only if they become cheaper.
Unable to catch scouts, barely counter knights, smashed by elephants, and destroyed by cav archers. Yeah, what a great cost effective counter unit.
Are we getting trapped in some kind of time loop?
The game is not designed in a way that one generic unit shutting down all cavalry play.
When camels backed up by arbalests or other powerful ranged unit, hussars cannot kill your backline unit while under fire.
I don’t know what your definition of countering knight is. Camels is cheaper and produced faster than knight. 2 stables Camels can catch up 3 stable knight.
Without presence of camels in open maps, knight can
(1) disengage unfavorable fight (massed pikes)
(2) Run back to monks for healing when heavily injured
(3) Pick on squishy units even including pike before pike form mass.
(4) Circle and raid at the weak side instead of fighting unfavorable scene/halting raids
With camels, knight can’t do the above. Knight players are forced to bring pikes, which delays knight raids and gives significantly more time to prepare defence.
For CA, before CA get all the techs, Elite Skirmishers and xbow-line are trading good enough against CA. Even after that, you have scorpions/onagers. Even though Camels is not ideal, they can attack CA from multiple flanks and surround CA easier than pikes. CA players often bring hussars to destroy scorpions/xbow but with camels, hussar has to scout for more info before raiding
Elephants? Elephants shouldn’t be countered by camels as their transition is the slowest and the most expensive branch. Scorpions should be massed in advanced or stop elephants civ win condition before elephants civs mass elephants.
After all, the value of camels depends on the value of knight/knight-like unit. Your 60 gold camels can run back to monks for healing to ‘regenerate’ the 60 gold.
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We already are. Be prepared to be responded with “60 GoLd”
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This game is not just about Arabia.
They are much less cost-efficient than halberdiers and, counterintuitively, weak against elephants and cav archers while shamelessly demanding as much gold as a Portuguese knight. This lousy unit is neither worth its cost nor worth missing halberdiers for.
You are missing all the points I made.
Even halbs are only cost effective but can’t stop elephants momentum. No Generic unit is strong against elephants either except scorpion.
Cav archers? Would you ever read?
There is no generic unit beating both xbow and knight-line effectively. If you demand camels to fight cavalry archers well, you are also making camels fighting xbow well inevitably.
There was one unit called imperial camel riders for Old Indians. Imperial Camel Riders was oppressive against Knight civs while not weak vs archer civs, making Indians so OP in team games which usually flank go for archers while the pocket player go for knight. Imperial Camels beated both and caused imbalance.
That’s why devs nerf Imperial Camels PA.
If camels can beat cavalry archers, which means it has PA to beat xbow as well. And this will not be allowed. How is it reasonable for a unit to beat other three power units? All-in-one function?
And this is a strategy game. The design is to encourage you to have differnt composition of army according to opponents strength/weakness, not one unit type and beat all. I even bet you are bad at playing Byzantines.
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Here’s what I did in my mod for the camels;
- Speed increased from 1.45 to 1.5
- +2 attack vs cav archers, +4 attacks vs elephants.
- Cost: 60 food, 50 gold
So you made all other cavalry units useless.
Well that’s why everybody can make their own mods I guess.
If you want one unit type to dominate, just make it that and play with it when you like.
Not really something to discuss though.
You are a man who wanted Sipahi to apply to camels and knights.
If you didn’t like it, then it’s an even better change than I thought, thanks for making me more confident about my mod.
Its quite a big buff. But +2 on horse archers wont do that much unless that makes it kill in 1 less hit. The speed 1.5 is quite broken tho… +4 vs elephants will improve them notable becouse u often find situation when you already have alot of camels vs small amount of elephants. I think its quite much.
If you think camels are that bad. I agree with only 1 change the cost you mentioned.
From 55food 60 gold to 60food 50 gold.
It actually wont make it any cheaper early but it will be more spammable later couse of lower gold cost..
Most camel civilizations don’t have good spear lines.
It’s not fair that halb civilizations can deal with elephants at any time while others can’t.
elephants are not that common and are pretty expensive, camels+archers are still going to be more cost effective than elephants
Scorpion also struggles against eles. You really need a lot of scorpions to fight eles better than other units do.
30+ scorpions + a choke point. Or else, fight them with Saracens or Italians or Incas
The other best way to fight elephants is prevention
Comes to the forum to claim one of the strongest units in the game is supposedly weak.
People explain them why it’s actually strong.
Chooses to ignore all the arguments.
Why does this happen that often?
1 Like