I mean in general since the closed Beta not just in this week.
The AI was destroying all my walls even during the beta the same way like it is today.
I even reported it with other players I believe, the devs asked us for footage if possible, but we didn’t have any. Well, it’s so easy to experience it now even without the footage, just play for example the last Norse mission in Fall of the Trident, it’s the best worst example of how walls are completely useless against this new AI now, no matter the mission.
I wonder if the devs read also these non-bug-report discussions.
Because the new superhigh difficulty nor the “new AI vs walls” can stay this way. Both must change. It’s making playing (not just the campaign) missions very annoying and again… absurd. I am honestly stopping playing the campaign until it gets closer to the original AoM level in both instances.
They do. Or at last someone who works there goes and tells the Devs.
They just almost never reply to anything outside of bug reports themselves.
I have completed the campaign #26 now, at the Hard difficulty, and I had played all campaigns at the Titan difficulty in the original AoM. Let me make some comments on difficulty.
Doesn’t feel any huge change:
#1, #6, #10, #12 (without Roc trick), #13, #25
Become easier:
#2, #3, #4, #5, #7, #8, #9, #11, #14, #15, #21, #22, #23, #24
Become more tricky/difficult:
#16, #17, #18, #19, #20, #26
(Updated 2024-09-02)
Tricky/difficult: #27, #28, #29, #30
Visible changes in Retold:
- Importance: Campaign hero > Myth unit > HP > Attack range > Attack strength > God Power > Class weakness
- Myth units make huge differences on both of offensive and defence now
- Myth units can overpower regular heroes and human units when pop cost is almost same.
- Regular Heroes and human units cannot outnumber myth units easily, you have to spam lots of human unit to stop some myth units
- Enemy unit spawning happens much faster in campaigns, you have to flank the enemy to take down buildings that spawns enemy units
- You must rely on God Power to buy time in some campaigns to flank enemies
In short:
- Campaign becomes easier when you can use myth units freely.
- Campaign becomes harder if enemy can send myth units freely and faster than you.
- Campaign becomes easier if there are many campaign heroes available in that episode.
- Class weakness is for low HP human unit only.
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Niordsir should become a hero unit that would at least make mission 18 easier and it would add a 2nd hero to the new Mythical Mission.
Generally it seems like mostly the Egyptian missions got harder.
I disagree with the following mission numbers…
#4 (harder imo - large amounts of units at the gate base)
#5 (harder imo - larger attacks, more aggressive, much more units in the enemy base, harder to get rid of them even when the economy has been fully established - takes much more time to kill them all than in the original AoM)
#7 (felt about the same to me)
#8 (felt about the same again - not easier)
#11 (yes maybe easier as we can see the paths of the canyons thanks to the LOS into them, but that’s all and in fact it is just as difficult as before)
#14 (absolutely not easier, I played it in original and won much faster and much easier)
#17 (maybe more units around the island but overall felt the same to me - mostly static and once killed, not much difference, the attacks into the bay were easily beatable with priests+osiris+catapult)
#22 (felt about the same but not easier)
#24 (absolutely not easier - in the original I was able to destroy all the giant temples but in Retold it is made the way they keep spawning, +have walls and towers, attacking also from the right side, giants patrolling constantly all over the place, much harder to establish the initial economy due the attacks).
I would add stuff that got harder…
#29 - making the Thor’s hammer - much harder, once the hammerhead captured by the red, no way to get it back even with full reinforcements from the surface.
#30 - the last Norse mission in the old abandoned mining camp - got extremely harder (multiple opponents highly upgraded unlike in the original, large armies, attacking from all sides including from behind, our useless walls).
#32 - multiple enemy AI opponents that attacks us once our allies get destroyed, need to get rid of them fast and if not, game over as each AI has very large army that comes back again and again, constant pressure
And of course some of the missions in general got harder because the walls became pretty useless with this new AI as it wants to destroy every single piece of our walls no matter if its in the AI’s path or not.
Well, IMO… My standard of easy and hard is based on “can I sit firmly at the base?”
For #4, #5, #7 and #8, they are all defensive missions, as soon as myth units and archers at place, you can sit firmly at the base and think about attack. After all, Greek myth units are good at AoE. Just need to have a few hoplites to deal with heroes.
For #14, I can spam myth units, camels and war elephants, and later warships in that missions. There are 5 myth unit spawning events for Amanra, enough for beginning defence. I can sit quite firmly at the base without worrying about defence force underpowered.
For #17, the enemy AI sends some small attack force in a few minutes when I was scouting the island after reached the village. Did not actually harm me, but very annoying to defend a huge island before navy built up to stop landing parties.
For #11 and #22, campaign heroes can deal with all small attack parties on their own. There was no obstacle to stop blooming.
For #24, the boulder was easier to destroy than the original, and campaign heroes can deal with all attack. The boulder took like only a couple minutes for 3 rams.
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I agree with you on the new AI, which destroys every single wall, it sucks. The only usage of wall now is to protect archer units and towers.
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For #29, I have just finished it at the Hard difficulty. I do agree it gets harder, and need to do in other way. Fortunately, campaign heroes have been buffed.
This was what I did, from the beginner to the end:
- Use all 5 heroes to rush through all the way to Eitri
- Using only 5 heroes to defeat all enemies on the road. Leave prisons there, go to Eitri first.
- Reach Eitri before his team is down completely
- Destroy all prisons with Eitri team
- Get all dwarves to mine gold
- Avoid the Nidhogg and mine gold first
- Reginleif need to rush back to take down the Nidhogg
- After all prisons opened, split dwarves to three team to mine gold, just left some dwarves to deal with the tree root
- All reinforcements have sent down before the boulder was cracked open.
- The hammer was completed before the fight beginned.
There is no economy in that mission so how can you defend?
You can’t train villagers so how can you boom?
Not sure if we are mixing up numbers here.
I’m going by the wiki.
I think this one is kinda luck dependent.
I had the AI randomly move around Leviathans with units in them instead of landing them. They were just moving in circles while I could slowly kill them with a single ship.
They only managed to land like 3 times during the whole mission.
But the enemy will not attack you in waves like #18 and #26 (last stage). The only crucial point in #7 is to take down enemies before they take down buildings, so you can train units faster at the last stage, then your army can overnumber the enemy, even the enemy sends some small attack force down. (They did not do that when I play, however, unlike the original AoM.)
Nah, you haven’t mixed up.
You cannot train villagers, but you can delay the relic job and get defence force up first. For example, you can send all villagers to gold mine and start the Prosperity God Power. The heroes are capable to stop enemy force long enough to get defence force up completely in the beginning, especially the canyon situation is visible now.
Yep, that’s how I won it - I didn’t use any dwarves to cut the taproot, just to mine gold so the mission stuff like the AI breaking through the boulder nor Nidhogg wouldn’t trigger… yet. And spamming Reigenleif’s heal ability as it healed my fighting heroes almost real time very fast. Once Brokk appeared with the hammerhead, I had to use his army to free the locked Norsemen asap, otherwise the giants from the ram would destroy Brokk’s force and take the hammerhead. Had to go with my other heroes towards Brokk at the same time fast as well in order to work.
But I still don’t like that this cheesing became the only way to win this mission - the same as in many others, we lost the freedom of choice in them and need to follow a likely predetermined way of fulfilling the mission and we are basically set on the rails. If we deviate from them even a single bit, we lose or it gest horribly harder - that’s the point when it comes to the generally higher difficulty in Retold.
I did the #29 once time today. All reinforcements arrived before the boulder was destroyed, and the hammer was completed before the enemy army started to attack.
This time, I tried the use all reinforcements to fight the incoming enemy army, and well… This is the result.
Kind of my bad actually. Maybe I should move the battlefield to a wider area, so more people can attack at the same time. Fire giants took out the entire frontline due to AoE attack, only throwing axemen survived.
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I have finished the #30 at the Hard difficulty, and I agree completely that the entire #30 becomes much harder. I had reset 2 times to get the strategy right.
The aim was mining gold and immediately build 2 town centres, after that, 50 villagers/dwarves.
I tried enter Age III, completed all Age III upgrades and set up double wall before the 10 minutes deadline ended, then I found out that will be outnumbered by enemy since I did not have time to wait for resource and train units.
I switched my strategy to stay at Age II, and build ranged army and heroes, and focus on repairing wall. Eventually I managed to buy time to reach Age III, and completed all Age III and armoury upgrades, but since then, there was no chance to reach Age IV, since I spent all resources to build towers and wall, and spamming human and hero units.
The last phase was ridiculous and the most absurd part, all enemies crowd at the boss area. I have nothing can do with that, but turn around and attack enemy bases first.
Then I found out the enemy does not actually have any economy in sense, it is nothing but spamming units out from no where.
After clearing out all enemy bases, and enemy armies are lured back to the bases, split it again and been eliminated, only a few myth units were guarding the boss. End of story.
Just like #16, #18, #19, #20 and #26, #30 has lots of enemies spamming in unreasonable speed. Kind of like, you need to defeat cheaters without any cheat. It is not fun at all…
Yes, for me, by #7 it gets really complicated…I can’t imagine it on Titan…
So through much blood, sweat and tears I have finally completed fall of the trident on Titan difficulty. New Atlantis to come, and certainly NOT looking forward to Atlantis Reborn or Cerberus missions.
The campaign is definitely much harder. Noticeable tough missions were “Bad News”, “Good advice”, “Long Way from Home”, “Unlikely Heroes”, “All is not lost” and of course the final two. “Light Sleeper” was also tough until I realised you could do the Roc trick, although I tried avoiding it by using Shifting Sands instead on my units. I was able to do “Isis Hear my Plea” relatively simply if I’m being honest.
So if anyone wants any tips for specific missions, happy to offer the tactics I used to do this on Titan.
Those were much easier then I remembered. I only played on hard though.
I am struggling a lot more in the middle of Fall of the Trident. I’m still stuck at #18
A Long Way From Home.
Now that the AI attacks walls it’s so much harder to be able to stay save anywhere, you have to split your army to defend multiple axis of attack while your army is barely big enough to even defend one of them.
Like how do you defend the TC while at the same time defend the mine in the East or the Trade Line you can put up in it’s place.
The whole Mummy situation is just another annoyance on top that forces you to commit some units and especially the 1 hero you have.
I can’t really comment much on the difficulty of earlier missions anymore since the AI has changed but in some of the Greek missions I didn’t build walls anyway so they seem pretty doable.
Congratulation.
I will wait for future updates to do something to the AI unit spamming. The current AoM:RE abuses scripted events in campaigns too much, campaign AI has no economy, nor pop limit, neither defence thinking. The only way to stop that is destroying the building that spawns units every few seconds.
I hope the dev can use other tactics to increase difficulty, rather than simply spamming the player with endless extra waves of enemy…
It is so crazy that I have multiple buildings outside of the enemy base, and spawning rate is significantly and visiblely slower than enemy even with Age IV upgrade.
This happened to me in #31 with Hard difficulty. I tried to setup a frontal attack base at the centre after I completed the base at the south beach, and I noticed the enemy buildings spawning like 20 units per minute per building.
I could not even get catapults closed to attack range because lots of chimera and enemy units blocked the main entrance. If I try to take the side door, and maintain the defence at the main entrance. I will immediately get outnumbered due to understaff at both sides, and force me back to defend the frontal attack base, and eventually run out of resource, and forced to abandon the entire base and go back to the south beach.
(PS: I had pop limit up to 355 at the centre beach base with two settlements.)
To the end, in #31, I need to use the north beach settlement instead to setup a defendable frontal attack base, and have the south beach settlement as the economy base.
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Aye I remember Cerberus and Atlantis Reborn being tough as nails on Legacy.
I can proffer my strategy for Long Way from Home if you want? Might help you, might not!
Just finished the first campaign on titan and its difficult but some where surprisingly easy
The final mission on titan was actually much much easier then expected and I actually have to say the statute was trivial compared to the base game. It does not regenerate as fast as in the base game, which leads to a normal army being able to take it down real fast. In particular divine damage from the son of osiris and it having range capable of staying outside the leash range of the statue means it can killed trivially. even holding early attacks turned out to be easy since you are already in heroic so spam hydras and once the son of osiris comes in everything just melts.
the well of urd was also another surprisingly easy mission where you can just turbo heroic immediately, spam out jarls with double upgrade and just steam roll their base immediately, you dont even need farms, you get enough favour from all the fighting to spam great hunt infinitely.
Unlikely heroes was a doosy but in the end solvable, abusing heal and good timing means you can just about meet in the middle.
Isis Hear my plea was also one that took a few tries ( i think 5-6) but after understanding the mission inside out you understand the strats and timing needed. Also nice that there is an alternate route to the prison if you choose to go for that.
Let’s go was probably the one i had the worse time on, but arguably looking back i forgot a few things that could be done to ease the mission and also completely forgot to check for bonus damages.
All is not lost is a masterpiece i think, best in the campaign. Hard, but with clear strategic and tactical decisions you can make, requires good attention, decision making macro and micro, comparable to All in in Starcraft 2
edit: other then that it wasnt that much more difficult then the OG campaign
edit edit: alot of the time i was caught out in the campaign had to do with poison/divine damage, archers and spearman can really quickly get out of hand with that
I did play Atlantis Reborn in the old AoM and in AoMR on Hard and there was clearly a lot less unit spam by the Greek AI. They clearly tuned that down. Which I think is good since it’s the 2nd mission. The first mission where you get the full Athlantean civilisation feature set.
Cerberus was probably tuned down a little too but not sure. I think it might be the stronger campaign heroes that carry that mission since most of the attacks are myth units with only a few human units here and there.
The AI only send Turma to attack the trade route and those are not really capable of breaching the wall.
I basically done the whole mission with only training Priest, Scorpion Man (since they don’t cost gold) and a few Elephants.
I have no idea how to do Long Way from Home now without walling. Unless I exploit the new AI behaviour by spamming walls to make them spend way to much time destroying them.
Try this, see if it works for you:
Build a quick, small army of spearmen/priests and go quick to the centre south temple. Use Chiron to take out the mummies, damage till ancestors, then pull back, defeat ancestors, then destroy the temple. This frees up that goldmine. No need to destroy the other temples really. I then used Chiron to sit halfway between the bottom right temple and my base to pick off the mummies that came that way and just left him to it.
Wall off the left and right crossings (don’t forget round the cliffs). The enemy will occasionally attack it but I found they - vast, vast majority of the time - came through the centre which you can fortify with Migdols that attracts them (more so than walls I felt).
Claim the far left TC asap, build your market there, wall off and set up trade as soon as you can. You’ll need gold.
The enemy attacks in two armies one after another on repeat, composed of elephants, scarabs, towers, priests and spearmen. Initially, spam priests and spearmen, as upgraded as you can get them. Eventually when you go Heroic, go Sobek. This is where the spam comes in. Get those Petsuchos out in mass. Masses of them shred the elephants combined with spearmen. That was the army composition I used: spearmen, petsuchos and priests. Believe me, to get critical mass will take a while but constant spamming of units will eventually see you reach it. Mix in a few upgraded elephants if you can.
There are two temples either side that are relatively undefended. A sneaky catapult on either side can take them out. Honestly, take them out and it becomes SO much easier, as that stops scarab production. And the scarabs do the most damage with their AOE blood death. Once those temples went down my critical mass was easier to muster. And when that happens, just slowly push forward. If you get enough petsuchos you can even go on the offensive.
As I said, they MAY go for your walls occasionally, but if you’re quick to react your petsuchos can stop them. Just avoid building towers and migdols at your walled area, only in your unwalled centre, as this seems to have a greater attraction.
Anyway, that’s how I did it on Titan. Took over an hour but got it done.
Happy tree-cutting!