Spanish have a really good outlaw build but with a specific outlaw that’s why I said many are specific for tournaments. France TBD doesn’t have any benefits for outlaws and Otto are so ridiculously OP that they don’t need them - and if they FI they can get guard outlaws for 500res so with that they can viably use them as well
Meanwhile Brits, Swedish and Japanese have no problem getting the pop same as Germany with their Palpatine settlements - and Comanchero are buffed by Germany’s CAV cards due to revolutions. Dutch ofc have their Buckrider and coin generation and Chia can get pop easily and can get certain unit types without banner armies
The biggest problem for outlaws is once they become viable people start screeching. For whatever reason it’s seen as something that shouldn’t be viable.
Well they are already viable with a good array of figs but you need to know how and especially WHEN to use them. Some builds can annihilate certain civs while others don’t work at all. Recently played German comancheros against Sweden in a tourney match and that felt almost illegal
It’s just that you can’t bot outlaws like the classical Bot Build Orders so it’s not perceived as anything viable by the playerbase
Damn right, Chinese Flamethrowers say hi
2 Likes
wow incredible mind for balance
Arguably Sweeden was designed as such. It only has xbows as response to LC. The thing is, you can’t nerf a civ too much.
Following the sweeden example, if xbows were to be further nerfed, they would be totally helpless against LC, leading to bad balance.
Aoe2 did try this with various tech limitations. Suffice to say, some civs end up being useless. So I don’t think it’s viable to do expensive and bad unit and force a civ to use it. Because then nobody uses that civ anymore.
Cheaper and stronger is an Age 4 late game thing for at least 6 civs i know.
Ottoman- All barrack and art foundry Infantry become cheaper
French- All Stable Cavalry
Japanese-Flaming Arrows and Shogunate buff
Russians-Unicorn mortars(insane value)/Team Patriarchy 50% discount priests lol
Mexicans-Revolutionaries become cheaper (Yes they are strong if fully buffed)
Lakota-All Cavalry 10% cheaper including your team mates
All these units they make cheap can overperform sometimes.
There is also 3 Royal guard units that fall under this category
Pikemen for Sweden and Portugal
Grenadiers for Ottoman and Russians
Crossbowmen for Portugal. (church card)
Since the game is huge. I may have missed some
While the opposite of this is
Dutch-Enables training of strong mercenaries which is cheap in their economic standards but makes your main core army more expensive.
Sweden-Savolax jaegers changes the cost of Jaegers to wood/coin however i do not know how good this is
For me. I think it should take time and skill for a player to exploit such mechanics during a fight. It makes it fun. You cant just straight up have a cheap but strong units all of a sudden.
Unless we talking Irish Brigadiers which are often underestimated and weak at the start. But a player with an actual brain knows thats not the case later. As they are rewarded by keeping them alive.
Actually the dutch lower the cost for both swiss pikemen and buckriders, in the later case quite significantly.
Savolax is actually a cost increase with the wood beeing more expensive than coin ( and unlike coin or food not infinite for torps.)
Irish brigadiers and other promotion units are a good mechanic since they incentivice a gameplay based on micro instead of macro spam whilest not beeing a hinderance like many abilities.
Even for dutch mercs are not “cheap” it’s rather that they don’t run out of the res needed after 4 batches like germany does.
And regarding things you missed the first thing coming to mind are natives especially with 25% cost reduction - this is not as big due to the build limitations but on certain maps or with certain civs like mexico or dutch that can make for insanely cost efficient units.
Oh and not to forget: lategame russia since their stats nerf gets effectively lower the more upgrades you get while the 25% increased unit output stays the same.
Savalos has been buffed and is now a slight cost reduction and has the huge benefit of having your coin last longer so it’s definately worth now
*this is talking about 1v1 sup
Savolax allready were better then the baseline though. But it’s good that they are a bit better.
with the 100/100 cost it was just worse than normal, 10% HP didn’t make it worthwhile and let’s be real invis mode is just useless rn (except for being a toxic “”" that hides spies)