Can we please nerf Franks?

Age of Empires II: DE II - Discussion
1

My distaste for playing against the civ has grown to a full blood boiling hatred of it and anyone who plays it.

I get it, great knights, iconic.

Do they need the cheapest castles in the game? Do they need a unique unit which counters their counter, halberdier? Can we please change this civ so they aren’t absolutely broken in Team games, a terror at low elo open maps and also good on maps like arena or nomad.

Can we please address this abomination that was once a ‘meh’ civ before Chivalry, or so I’ve heard?

Thanks, A franks hater.

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Probably not.

Yes, otherwise, they’ll be complete garbage.

Probably not doable to do all those things at once.

Probably the best thing to do is either significantly nerf Chivalry or just remove it and replace it with something else.

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Honestly putting their castles back to normal costs is not a bad idea. Giving them somewhat reduced ability to defend themselves also fits better with the whole “chivalry” and “élan” vibe.

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Maybe there can be a new technology, replacing Chivalry, called Chateau, that affects Castles.

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Honestly I find Chivalry doesn’t even make a huge difference, games are usually won or lost long before it comes into play. Mainly I’d like to see the castle discount removed so that they can’t just spam knights with extra hp all early game AND castle drop you because they get bonuses to do BOTH!

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That and now they can’t create throwing axemen as easily, or go for some stupid, double castle drop into fast imp trebs on Arena. Drives me insane that they can win scout war AND castle drop you, twice.

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7

Well in Arena that’s the Franks strat, you gotta expect that. Get ready for it by having a few archers or something ready, or go to castle faster and drop a castle on them instead.

In open maps the siege+halbs classic combo works pretty well vs franks.

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Remove Cavalry HP bonus from Feudal age and that is enough to nerf them on TGs (or no?).
In 1v1s Franks aren’t OP and many civs can keep up vs them.

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I agree they have way too many bonuses which synergise really well. On top of the already insane HP cavalry + cheap castles, also giving them free farming upgrades + 15% faster berries just makes them an absolute power house from a macro perspective. Having all that extra food means they can spam knights and afford armour, as well as go 3x TC producing vills behind. All at the same time. Cheap castles should be unlocked by researching Elite Throwing Axemen. Berries bonus could be 10%.

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Franks have recieved key bonuses as the game has evolved, like the berry bonus, extended hp bonus to scouts and chivalry. They also recieved squires in one of the expansions, which helps a lot the armies with halbs or throwing axemen.

I think the berry bonus along with the scout HP is too much. I’d just take away the berry bonus and give it to an underperforming civ. No idea what to give in compensation though (not that I care anyways).

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I feel like this is a big part of the problem

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Well Franks need the bonus because is what keep their defenses sane, they lack Keeps, Bombard Towers, Bracer, Heated Shot, Treadmill Crane.

Besides Franks before FE were a terrible civ still with 25% cheaper Castles, what made Franks absurd is the Cavalry HP bonus on Feudal, Berry Bush bonus and Chivalry (That’s still broken lol).

Anyway the place where they are truly OP are Arabia TGs.

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What about moving the cheaper castles to Imperial, and staggering the HP bonus as 10%/20% from Feudal to Castle?

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Foragers work 15% faster bonus is removed.
Arbalester is added to tech tree.
(Elite) Throwing Axe Man range increased 4 (5) → 5 (6)
Unique Tech Bearded Axe is removed.
New Unique Tech “Arbalatrier” is added.
Effect: Archer line +4 MA.
Cost: 275 Food and 275 Gold, 40 seconds

That is due to current Arabia generation. Once we get the new patch this month (possibly with a good number of balance change as well) and revert to old Arabia where you can take berries a bit more comfortably, Franks will go back to OP tier.

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Arbalétrier just means “Crossbowman/ Arbalester” in French so giving them a unique technology with this name would be weird, and it doesn’t refer to anything unique either that is associated with the French. If you want to give the Franks an unique technology based on archery then it can be called “Franc-Archers” which was the name for the militia of medieval France and the first attempt to make regular infantry in the kingdom.

I can see that you took inspiration from the Arbalétrier unit from [Age of Empires 4] when coming up with the name for this technology, which is not truly a unique unit for the French in that game but seems to be based on the Genoese Crossbowman.

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Only Bracer is significant. The rest of them are only very rarely used or researched on typical land maps.

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Franks are not top tiers in all rating from famous players…

There UU are melting vs archers or HC. I do not player often Franks, but I prefer to play against Franks than many other civs more OP.

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Yeah and also without the castles they fwel extremely boring. Their only military bonus is “free” bloodlines and slightly tankier paladins.

Their eco isnt even that intwresting either

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And “Yasama” means Arrow Slit. Name can be anything. I don’t care much.

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20

Yes, they do need it… they are very predictable civ, specially at lower ELOSs, everybody knows that franks will try to scout rush in feudal and play KT in castle (and you can just play spears, pikes or camel for a fraction of the cost of franks player). All their bonuses and tech tree has been created and modiffied around that strategy.

I could agree to nerf the castle discount (although I don’t agree franks have the cheapest castle) or maybe other minor tweaks. But there is a reason the more you go up in the ladder franks are not that great (still an A civ nonetheless)