Case for Fixed Starting Resource Spawn

Age of Empires IV IV - Discussion
1

Currently, the resource spawns are too drastically random. I think starting resources should be slightly fixed. To eliminate the element of luck early game. It is completely senseless to introduce an element of luck in a competitive game, imo. It was always sort of there in previous titles, but AOE4 is a bit too drastic, leading to inconsistent experience. This is because there are civs that can exploit randomness and also civs that can be killed off with randomness.

Here’s how it would be fixed:

The first 2 neutral sheep spawning close so that the scout can just catch both on its way.
The distance between first TC to first gold, tree line, stone, and berries equal every single time.
The first gold and berries should always be in the back of the base or, if not, blockaded through an obstacle.
The first tree should always be in range of the TC, but gold should always be outside the range (to keep dark age first gold harass viable)
The first stone should always to be to the side of the TC, that is to say neither forward nor back. We should be able to punish greedy multiple TC plays.

IF you get forward gold early game and the opponent does not, the game is already not fair. Dark age rushers have like 10 to 20 seconds more to attack the gold in the back. Civs like HRE does not get to fully utilize a landmark if you can’t catch tree and gold at the same time. And if your first tree or gold is in the front of the base, you are incentivized to throw it down in the front of the base, consequently setting your farms up later in game to be positioned in front as well. HRE is inconsistent due to randomized relic spawns to begin with. It’s a civ that feels OP at times, not really due to units, but due to sheer luck. You need to remove randomized elements in the early game.

In analyzing my games, when my first gold spawns in front of the base, I lose more often. When my opponent has forward gold and I don’t, I win a lot more often. The matches were simply not fair to begin with. On maps with short rush distance/time due to lack of obstacles like Dry Arabia or Prairie, it is simply unfair to have one player have forward gold while the other has gold in the back of the base that could amount to 20 seconds of additional time spent detouring around the TC to harass the gold.

To sum it up, lessen randomization for starting resource spawns. This is good for consistent player experience and consistency makes it easier for devs to balance civs.

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I can fully understand your point of view, but I still have to disagree with u on it being not random. It can definitely be more improved and a lot of maps sometimes can have so really unfortunate spawns, but I still believe the randomness off res spawn makes the game way more exiting. Furthermore, u will have bad spawns but so will your opponent as well, in the end if you’re the better player u will win and climb. When I play vs a conq player and I get clapped, I don’t think: oh man if my gold had been in the back I would have totally won. I think oh dame I suck at this game and I need to get better.
On top of this, not every civ wants the same resources to be safe in the back. As an example, against mongols I prefer my gold to be at the front because if my gold get s tower rushed it’s not that big of a deal as long as I get enough gold to age up. I much rather have my wood safe in the back. If I play Ottermans or Abbasid, I want my wood in the front and my stone in the back, close to another food source if possible. And if I play Malians, I want my gold in the Back. Not every Civ want s the same resources and has the same play style. This is the main reason why I disagree on the spawns not being randomized, It like solving a puzzle every time u spawn it makes the game much more engaging and much more fun long term.

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Randomness spawns arround the tc is not fun at all. When you get dark age rushed, the position of your gold is just insane in term of how it will impact the game and there are nothing deepth in that as it’s pure random (iam gona dark rush and hope your gold is in the front, pure random, no strategy).

Too me, the first wood/gold/stone should be “fixe” but different in each map (some should have super safe gold, the other slightly more in front)

4

That is not true if u get dark age rushed and u scout it u just pull all your vills to gold and get the gold u need to age up and u ahead, bam free win. That’s just and excuse for not scouting.
Furthermore, if u gold is safe in the back, your opponent is severely behind so he literally goes by chance. Which makes it even worse.

5

This is so wrong, at conq level pretty much all england payer maa rush abassyde, (at least in my game and i play mostly abassyde), so i KNOW my op will dark rush my gold. You need gold for other stuff than just the age up, iam pretty sure a lot of civ are in the same situation (i can think about france, dehli and hre).

Many situation here :

  • if your gold is super safe, then your op will not drush and will not be behind, that’s the point
  • it’s seem better to know if your drush can deal damage or not depending of the map and right know it’s pure random.
    I mean, sometime your 2 gold are in front lol
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(Amphiprion6 – AoE4 World)
So now u a conq player with 1200 MMR in only normal games that’s quite impressive, maybe u don’t lie in the future about something someone can google in 30sec?

Furthermore, if u know 100% someone is MMA rushing u. why don’t u get gold with 5 vills from the start of the game to get the gold for wheelbarrow fresh food and age up and then go full on food. U will be so far ahead if u will do this. After that u get 1 archery range and scout if hes making longbows or makes a second tc if he makes a second Tc u go 3 Tc go to castle and all in him and u win.

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This is not me… check poissondu44

Because you will age super late.

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I mean, so do they. They have to spend 150 wood and 200 food and 40g because 1 mma does very littel, u can still mine gold if it’s only one. They will also delay the age up by at least 1.5-2.5 min because of this. And the transition will be super awkward if they try to rush age 2 after they dark age rushed since they don’t have wood for a lumber camp, mining camp and afterward wood for longbows. So they will not be able to put on feudal pressure before 8 min. They will actually most of the time take it slow and go for 2 tc afterward, which should be the a gameplay abbassid preffers. The onley diffrenc in ur build would be to mind the gold u need sooner and add make a archery range before u go on stone. after that u can safely go for 3 tc.

9

I am not gona theory craft how dark age rush work, the point is the difference between front and back gold is insane in term of impact, for something pure rng.

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Sort of said since the game came out that it would be a lot easier to balance a game with fixed map spawns. Admittedly this system ensures you get the good with the bad - but it can be frustrating. Especially if you barely lose a game, and its because all “your” resources were half way to the opponents base while theirs were in a neat easily defended pocket.

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And this is exactly my point. Instead of adjusting to something, u want it to be fixed for u so u don’t have to bother with it. It takes uniqueness away from every game, and that’s more valuable than getting screwed one in 10 games.
beastyqt has over 90% win rate on an account with 100+ games, the RNG of the spawn has little to do with ur success.

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I’m not talking about getting matched with a conq as a plat at 1:00 am because nobody else is playing. Sure, better players will overcome differences. I’m talking about relatively equal resources. For some casted games, I even see pro players get exploited left and right because of the forward gold spawn.

We still have plenty of chances to solve puzzles after the initial resource spawns deplete. I just don’t think certain civs should be crippled at 3 to 4 minute mark because of a bad spawn. I have been utterly paralyzed by a English villager rusher who arrived at my first gold way before I got enough gold and, by the time I got to my second gold, there was another villager there already, ready to kite my villagers. Just utterly absurd luck can ruin a game.

And Beastyqt is not your joe.

13

You don’t understand the point. The point is how this situation impact the balance, if you react well when your gold is in front you are behind (and vice versa, if your gold is in back you are ahead and the drusher can’t do nothing about it), if you don’t react well you can resign in 3 min.
Plus, there are zero strategical depth inside that, like i said i am gona dark rush and just hope your gold is in front (there are no adjustment)

This kind of situation is the reason why dev added a ger at the begining to mongol, mongol was massively impacted by map spawn and the ger drasticly reduce this.

14

another age comes out, immediately map generation balance is a big talking point (obviously the way maps generate rn gives a lot of cases where either the resource distribution is plain unfair (ik that pain pretty well from legacy trilogy) or spread too much and allowed to put what should be a starting resource way too far, or in really akward spot, like far towards your opponent)