Celts: Stronghold tech replacement

No. A faster champion would be a berserk. These are much much faster champions, moving faster then even teuton knights.

That is a huge advantage by any stretch.

Celts are an Infantry and Siege civ, so why not give them something that involves both?
Like a boost in speed and attack increase for garrisoned Ram, for example.

1 Like

I see it differently: Celts are not weak enough to need any change.
No civ “deserves” a proper UT and no civ “does not deserve” a bad UT.

So I’ll state my usual “People who do not find a civ uninteresting shouldn’t play with it and leave it to players who find it interesting. As long as more than 1.25% of the player base play it (the average being 2.5% per civ), there is no reason to complain for buffs or reworks.”

I like the idea, but not for Celts. I think they already have several bonuses on infantry and siege.

this is hilarious. i would love to know (not really) how you randomly picked 1.25% as deserving. not 1.2%. but 1.25%

“i dont care how boring the civs are, i dont want to incentivize anything”

the problem is this makes them good where they’re already good, as in it isnt going to help them vs buffed infantry heavy civs, protect them from raiding or help them raid. their 3 biggest flaws

Half of the average I guess. Although his average is wrong. It is 2.38%.

Just brainstorming, don’t loose your mind 11. possible new Castle Age UT taking your analysis in count.

-Infantry speed bonus removed and new Castle Age UT gives +25% speed for militia line (equal Eagle Warrior speed)?
-Giving vils attack bonus vs cavalry (i would ideal a new armor class for eagles and lightcav line)
-Replace 50% Light cav-line cost for Wood (40F 40W). Maybe remove husbandry for balance

Strongholds could give Castles more arrows, say 4 and limit the attack speed increase to only Castles.
The bonus to Towers could be moved elsewhere.

1 Like

Yep, randomly picking around half of the average. Could be a little more,could be a little less. Anyways it would be below the ~2% of celts, which is very close to the average.
Just like people can randomly say the winrate of a civ is so high that it is OP.

More like “I dont care how boring this civs is for you, it is not for so many other people”

Btw, if all civs are boring for you to play, I think it is better dor you to play other games. Why would you even play aoe2 ?

And yeah, I do not like random civ changes when it is just for the sake if changing, without any balance need.

Yes, it is not exactly the average, my bad. I felt that a rough approximation would be enough.

Their rams already Attack 25% faster tbf

Yeah this kind of behavious is terrible for me sometimes on this forum. It’s like someone wants to never change something, despite clearly be better for the game of something gets more interesting

Slavs and saracens did not needed any changes as well by those standards, but they did and they are fare more enjoiable now

1 Like

Except Stronghold is widely considered one of the worst tech in the game. There is no debate about that. and when a tech is bad, It needs changes, as othodoxy for slavs or old Monk UT for saracens changes thought us not so long ago

1 Like

I think Civs should represent their civ identity and shine with their strong military units (especially unique ones). Let’s look at Franks, Franks is very strong civ thanks to eco bonuses, early strong scouts and 25% cheaper Castles. But what is identity of Franks? they are best Knight Civilization in theory but their Knight is Generic and their Paladin only +12 extra hp. If we remove berry bonus, nerf Castle discount to 20% and gives them Cavalries have 25% hp at least Franks will get 200 hp badass Paladins.

Celts isn’t OP civ and they won’t be S tier with this +1 PA Woad Raider and +X vs building bonus. This is fine change proposal I suppose.


Out of all the ideas, I like this one the most.


I have 2 ideas for the replacement of Strong Hold:
-Glasgow: All infantries gain + 5 vs siege units (this is mainly for woad raiders to raid enemy’s siege units more effectively and halb to deal with trash war ram push)
-Pike Reform: Spear line gain +1 range. (this will help them deal with cav more effectively and help them a bit in trash war)

nah. orthodoxy had a barrier because it needed a castle to get the tech. whereas bengalis monk is doing extremely well. further more UT for saracens had a bug where in certain scenario doesn’t return gold and it was removed in combination of the bug + lack of use.

had saracen’s UT on gold return being extremely cheap and fast to research, while returning say 75% of gold im sure it’ll be used much more considering how much monk are used in game.

we should not remove stronghold, but buffing it a little and call it a day.

I am not debatting that. Just like I would not be debatting Franks have among the worst elite skirms in the game, or that Mongols castle age UT is one of the worst in the game.

Your OP is mainly about 2 things:

  • Does Celts need a change to be good enough (win rates and play rates)
  • What would be alternative castle age UTs for Celts to better suit their civ (reinforcing main playstyles or complementing them to reduce their weaknesses)

I talk about the first point and you about the second.

Saracens didnt need a better UT. Slav was a one of the least played civs. I dont see how Saracens are far more enjoyable now, even though the buff of getting camel HP in castle age is nice. For Slavs I agree that the late game Castle spam into Boyars is a nice option.

Still, I do not want to see changes when not needed.

Celts have one of the best siege and a good eco bonus in fast wood gathering. If their eco bonus is nerfed, they still get their 25% attack speed siege and 378hp siege ram. Weaker in open maps but stronger on maps like BF.

This will not make the civ OP, I agree. The change would be fine if the civ were in need of a change.

I just do not think the civ is in need of a change and I like it more when the civs do not change rather than when there are regulary minor updates changing the civs.

1 Like

Dravidians desperately needs this one replacing Medical Crops.

Which civ does have best Siege? I think Mongols and Bohemians with Houfnice, and Mongols has best UU Mangudai and very good Hussar. What does Celts except Siege, they have 4.5% faster infantry and that’s all. Bohemians Halberdier is better, +15 hp, +15% faster villagers and Bohemians has best Hand Cannoneer ( pure +15% faster, Celts infantry is only 4.5%) as well.

My main concern with the tech is that celts is not a defensive civ and this UT serves nothing to their playstile of their identity, while in the meantime their UU is only “decent” (Better than some trash infantry UU like serjeants but worse than good ones like zerks) and their infantry in general is average after Feudal age, thus why i would use that UT slot for something more in line with celts

1 Like