In my opinion, removing the 20% faster working archery ranges bonus from the Britons is not an extreme measure, but rather one that would balance the civilization well. Moreover, they would still be very strong, as was the case with the Mayans when Obsidian Arrow was removed from them.
Itās not 20% anymore. Half of my point is, it makes some sense to advocate for this sort of thingā¦until the devs show that they clearly intend on going another direction with it. Nothing wrong with venting steam against a change you think is bad, but once itās more or less a done deal, might as well wake up and smell the coffee, and adjust your propositions to fit the incoming reality.
Like, changing it to 10% isnāt going to shrek the Britons (and is a change that has previously seen notable advocacy on this forum), and a larger value as a civ bonus for another civ is still a possibility.
I agree that this was an overreaction and they should have been hit elsewhere. I do like strong, unique civ bonuses, and while Iām not a huge fan of the Brit change, I get that it was a pain point for some people, and TBs in general are harder to balance.
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None of the civs youāve mentioned are archer civs. Anyways Iād give them as a civ bonus rather than team bonus until non-archer flank strategies become more viable. Best civ for something like that would be Dravidians.
I only mentioned examples of civilizations that could receive that bonus. Another user suggested that Italians could have that bonus as a civilization bonus, but not necessarily as a team bonus.
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I am not seeing a resemblance to the Obsidian arrow paradigm. For one thing, the arrows competed with the Saracen team bonus, but were stronger, backed by cheaper archers.
tbh, I would give them 10% faster archery range as built in civ bonus and the other 10% as team bonus. Briton by no mean is a top tier 1v1 civs with below 50% win rate anyway. Nerfing them like this plus the upcoming gamberson are gonna hurt Birton even more in 1v1 for sure.
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To me, yes, because what I mean is that even if the bonus of 20% faster working archery ranges is removed from the Britons, they will still be a very strong civilization in terms of archery. And itās not like with the Vikings, when they lost Thumb Ring they stopped being used.
Yes, the modification of the bonus that the Britons will receive is appropriate. But in my opinion, that additional 10% could be incorporated into another civilization.
Imo if a civ is OP in certain or multiple settings for a combination of bonuses, instead of nuking a bonus to ground, it is better to totally replace that with a weaker bonus. Now a potential good bonus, canāt be good because Britons OP and devs wonāt move to other civ. Although for this particular bonus, I canāt guarantee that 20% will be balanced for other civ. Since there will always be more archers than cavalries in TG, whatever civ gets 20% faster range - Vietnamese, Italians or Dravidians, might become an auto pick TG civ.
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My idea was to add it as a new civ bonus, not team bonus anymore. Probably as civ bonus would be weaker, but Italians donāt need a huge buff anyway. They need something for early game and for their archers that feels generic
And also better or cheaper geno elite upgrade
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The ultimate problem is that the Britons are not overpowered. The two bonuses simply form an identity. The Crossbow/Arbalester cost updates greatly harmed them as their play was impacted by timings. The Briton Archer rush remains a thing that is tied to their identity, but an Ethiopian one can snag more kills.
Thatās why i think itās an occasion to make them more well rounded. Maybe a new TB could shift them from being a only Archer civ to something more. Letās not forget they also have almost FU cavalier and light cav (lack bloodlines) and Champions (lack gambesons)
Maybe giving them gambesons would compensate
There are a few problems here. Firstly, not giving them gambesons has already raised a lot of eyebrows, as fully upgraded infantry was an emphasized attribute of the civilization. Secondly, moving from the archer emphasis to something more rounded would make them something less. You could give them Bloodlines right now and they would remain the Archer civilization that they are. The Briton Knight line does see consequential play, it just is not a primary attribute.
Foot archers fire 5% faster or foot archers do +1 damage vs cavalry units.
Oh, I agree. But that ship seems to have sailed on this particular matter. You either nerf the bonus, or you move it; you donāt do both. Which is my point regarding why I think itās weird to call for the Brit bonus to be moved after it was nerfed, which is what OP is doing, unless unaware of the PUP changes. We can still talk about how they should have done this or that, but at that point the discussion is just reactionary venting and unlikely to change anything.
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giving them bloodlines would be a huge buff britons donāt need, they are not italians level or something like that, they are still an A tier civ
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