Make steppe lancer a counter cavalry unit, as this +1 range is strange, hard to ballance and now nobody makes them. Make them a mix between camels and paladins… or mybe more pierce armored with a bonus to cavalry? Guys any other ideas…?
I rly like the unit as it represents most cavalry ever used in history that used spears not swords.
and i hate when it is so strange.
eve spirit of the law says they are kinda useless.
I tend to disagree. We already have camels. The role the lancers are currently aiming for seems more interesting to me, and should lead to situations in which it is better to create steppe lancers than either knights, camels or a mix of the two. The unit has just been overnerfed.
Well. To me the fights even look strange. I agree when footmen have pikes for greater range. But to use cavalry to hold choke points makes no sense and its ridiculous. Aoe has many units that perform almost the same role. This would be no different and make sense. Make it slightly more vulnerable to infantry but just a bit better vs cavalry for example
Thats exactly the same purpose a camel has. Also they already have 0 melee armour so they are already weak to infantry. I think they are fine. With the extra range you can micro down pikes and kill vills over quick walls. One of the best melee raiding units.
Maybe give them 0 pierce armor, but better melee armor? I mean, with a lance you would reach your opponent first, ergo you wouldn’t take that many strikes. On the other hand you don’t have other hand for carrying a shield (pun intended), so you would get hit with every arrow.
That would be a nice niche against cavalry (since cumans don’t get heavy camels and Tartars have the worst halbs in the game)
I still don’t get the niche they’re supposed to fill.
They’re not a ranged unit; their range isn’t enough to actually be used as a primary ability, and that niche is already better filled by cavalry archers.
They’re not anti-cav, that niche is better filled by Camels.
They’re not a raiding unit, they’re not particularly fast and they’re vulnerable to arrow fire.
They fit in this weird place between knights and lcav that hardly needs to exist in the first place, lacking the strengths of either while having the weaknesses of both. You can’t spam them, they cost gold, but you can’t rely on their gold cost winning most fights, either.
Why do they even exist? And what niche could they possibly fill that isn’t already being filled by something else that does it better?
The only way I see them being used is as an accompaniment to tankier units, which in the case of these civs means knights. But at that point you’re investing in most likely three different units to achieve the same thing! Your mangudai, knights to tank, and then steppe lancers somewhere in the middle? But is their upgrade cost really worth it when you’re just building a few of them to support your other guys? I find it hard to believe that will be the case.
Just increase attacking speed. Then it’ll live upto it’s expectation.
Totally agree, and also look rly bad when they fight. As cavalry should move alot… Not just stand there and lance away.
Also good idea.
But increasing their attack speed makes them just the same op again they were be4. And retain all the bad we spoke about.
I mean, it’s the only niche I can think of. Better in melee fights than knight, but worst to arrows than light cavs. Something like a lighter boyar
Increasing attack won’t be op. Fact is there attack speed never changed. Attack speed will change the fight in long term. If attack speed is increased with large number they’ll kill Knights as they should but they’ll die at the end with low number as they should as well.
Steppe Lancer should never take the role of Knight. Steppe Lancer should be something works better in crowd and bad at low number.
Honestly I prefer Knight being better at fight compared to Steppe Lancer. Steppe Lancer should be something that works better in crowd and sucks at low number.
Steppe lancers are fine
Steppe lancers are not cost effective even if they’re mixed in with knights so they never actually get attacked.
The problem is the most efficient way to use them is always going to be stacking them on top of each other in a small space.
Though they could be marginally acceptable right now if their cost were reduced a little bit.
Reduce their food cost by maybe 10 or 15 and they’d at least cost effective.
I agree. And it really sucks. As they are fast it is easy to group them up and avoid onager shots. The line where they will be op or under powered will be so slim they will be used all the time or never. If they were powerful slow foot solders. Its easy to counter them, but this is hard to ballance. And its sad couse nobody makes them. And i would love to as they look nice. Still an alternative to camels would be better. Mybe light boyar stylle as mentioned be4.
They should be removed and have their art used as a knight line reskin for the region.
That would be great, though for compettitive play pros will be angry as they will have a harder time recognising the unit… I heard that comment alot before. Make a less gold intensive in the middle a bit anti cav not so archer tanky unit. So it still cant beat paladins… Equal numbers
But can be cost effective vs cavalry
What if they are purposely kept weak to arrow fire, while doing more damage than the light cav line and being good vs melee?
That way you want the heavier knights for fighting underneath defensive buildings and vs archers, camels vs other cavalry, light cav in low gold situations and for raids against unprotected villagers and lancers for open field battles for map control.
In those open fields they do reasonable against knights, especially when combined with cavalry archers, but if the knights have their own support they suddenly have the advantage, so the tactic for the lancers is bait, switch, hit and run. That sounds reasonably historic.
A bit weird that the open field unit then also has the reach bonus for choke points though…