Chasquis: Scouts That Outperform Cav

Age of Empires III: DE III - Discussion
1

Inca scout with a great deal of utility.

screen64
screen64774×234 61.2 KB

This scout is better at fighting than a coyote runner, costs 30% less (80 res vs 110), trains nearly 3x as fast (10s vs 27s), and, way down at the bottom in the teeensiest font on the wiki, “cannot be snared.” That is with base speed 6.5, greater than coyo at 6.25, and disciples and dogs at 5. They also garrison in TCs! And build TCs. And build trade posts. And can reach a build limit of 20. That is a great deal of utility. Kudos to the description writer.

It does have tags whew and phew. It has the shock infantry tag like coyote runners, chimu runners, etc.

So, what changed for this to happen? Here’s the most recent patch notes (14.43676)

Aymara Support (II):
Now adds 3.5 bonus damage to Chasquis against heroes instead of mercenaries.
Improves Chasqui damage by +9 (down from +15).
Increases Chasqui limit by +15 (up from +5)
Now sends 7 Chasqui (up from 5).

Credit to devs anticipating a balance concern and preemptively adjusting numbers. Close but no cigar.

Because for some reason chasquis, I guess because they’re scouts, not real units, and are DLC units, have the most bonkers shadow tech progressions.

Fortress age up +30% hit points and +10 attack (+67%)
Industrial age up +40% hit points and +15 attack (+60%)
Imperial age up +50% hit points and +15 attack(imperial is irrelevant because walls are UP)

These aren’t your father’s +25% attack/hp that native units normally get.

chasquitable
chasquitable1193×298 15.8 KB

Remember chasquis cost 40w 40c each, batch train in 10 seconds into a building they can garrison in, and cannot be snared. You can build 17 chasquis in age II and 19 in age IV.

This is me Coping With A Ladder Loss (CWALL). You can download that recorded game below. I thought things were going well until 20 chasquote-runners pooped out of a town center at once. I had a similar game vs a similar (read: same) player (rank 12) yesterday (except I won, so no CWALLing). Guard chasquis 3-tap vet longbow with breastplate! watch endless losses live @callenapexlegends Twitch

vspythonincaabushe.age3Yrec (10.2 MB)

Is this an issue?

Gonna write up about South Africa revolt in 1v1 supremacy later (imperial units for 7,600 less res than it normally takes to get imperial units is not bad)

17 Likes
2

Inca is a weak civ, being nerfed many many times. Let them have a good unit please

2 Likes
3

I was concerned initially that this posting was not constructive or reasonable but objectively speaking the facts presented are in fact obviously quite concerning. This much is obvious.

In fact, chasqui is currently in the top 10 on list of overperforming units. Main reasons presented in OP. I hope reasonable devs consider it.

4

If they’re a bad civ their other units needs to get adjusted, not their scout unit elevated to being broken.

5 Likes
5

the reason probably for the weird % is probably that they have no stats card

could just remove that but make them affected by the melee combat card in age 3

Didnt know you cant snare them, I do know they are used as sneaks to build in the back of bases in treaty so thats probably why

probably needs to be removed somehow

6

DLC unit? It came from base DE

7

Weak compared to which civ? Their units are strong, their eco is strong. From all the native civs they are the strongest, have house factories for food/wood, dance for wood, along with other things.

Back into the topic Native scout has 5.5 movement, Cuirassier has 6.25, Hussar has 6.85. Yes its broken by many factors and being serious why is it faster than these 3 units, 2 which are horse units.

8

Lol. Someone asked if this is a DLC unit? kek. It may as well be. I dont think there ever was a scout with 40 attack and 20 limit.

2 Likes
9

Not saying Chasquis aren’t over toned, but I don’t believe they snare. Tanking and snaring are the two main uses of cavalry. Given that, I don’t know that the stats are overpowered. However I don’t believe they cost population, which only becomes a problem after the card is sent to increase their build limit.

With a build limit of 5 the stats and no pop cost aren’t an issue. With a build limit of 20 it adds up to being an issue imo.

10

I have thousands of games played and have never once seen anyone send the chasqui card, without that card they are totally useless units in a fight.

I am also inca main and I’ve tried the card when it was stronger and still didn’t feel it was worth sending considering the card costs 500 gold to send. They don’t snare and perform worse than chimu for raiding and taking out artillery, you also can’t train them at military buildings only at tp’s and tc’s.

The comparison is also barely relevant as you’re not taking into account their cost, a dog should be far worse considering their cheap and the cost of chasqui compared to coyotes is almost the same when you consider vill seconds to gather wood and gold compared to food, coyotes can also be trained beyond a build limit of 20 while you’re spending 500 coin + a card just to be able to train 20 chasqui which are somewhat similar to chimus but without any combat card. Seems pretty much a waste of time in any 1v1 game.

3 Likes
11

simply put it whether you send it or not, or have faced it or not, doesn’t change the items laid out in the post.

the unit’s hp, attack, cost, and train time are all overtuned, with a TC-garrison ability no other military unit gets and a permanently unsnarable feature. these add up. it takes a card, just one, and not more. it shadowtechs for free every age (so more than making up for card cost) with unprecedented progression. 19 units is like 1/5th of a maximum standing army. single pop cav units perform pop efficiently especially with these stats.

7 Likes
12

Horrible fundamento

Te estan mostrando literalmente las estadisticas y estas despreciando la utilidad, La unidad es un problema claro porque es multifuncional, construye, explora, es buena contra guardianes del tesoro, mata heroes y mercenarios, la unidad es mucho mejor que un Espia y eso que cuesta menos, no tiene poblacion y hace mejores intercambios contra las otras unidades de tierra, ademas no le puedes meter slow.

Esta unidad por lejos se paso del burbuja que deben tener las unidades tipos scout o de apoyo, que mas me puedo esperar de una civilizacion que ya de por sì siempre fue ridicula desde sus comienzo, No puedes comparar ni de broma al perro de guerra con un Chasqui, Cuando el proposito del perro de guerra es solo hacer Tesoros y algo de combate contra unidades, tiene un LOS bajisimo por lo cual para explorar es inviable, actualmente es bastantemente malo para usarlo en combate con otras unidades por los nerf seguidos, solo sirve contra pocas unidades de inf ligera si es que estan indefensas, mientras que el Chasqui Construye, explora con un campo de vision enorme creo que es igual a Emisario Holandes o mejor, solo que explora mas rapido por su velocidad, tiene bonus contra mercenarios, no puede ser relentizado, ademas obtienes seguramente 2 o 3 en edad los primeros 5 minutos dependiendo de tu B0 pero si o si siempre tendras 2 si usas logicamente una carta en edad 1. Si quieres ver a alguien que los usa y le sale bien aca tienes el twich “Twitch” de un player inca que si tiene partidas donde las usa, de hecho le ha salido bien porque ha tenido match contra civilizaciones nativas donde es muy importante matar al jefe guerrero como el de los hadenosaune, japon, lakota etc

2 Likes
13

It’s not a clear problem because otherwise it would be used. The free italian forts is a clear problem because it is constantly abused.

On paper malta looks incredible with 6 settler wagons from german tongue and the huge eco boost from wignacourt but look at its win rate. Stats and numbers on paper aren’t the whole story.

Chasqui are similar in cost to coyotes and chimu, yet they only perform similarly after sending a 500 gold costing card. Otherwise they suck, what other unit requires an expensive upgrade card just to be worth its cost?
If I have veteran chimu in age 3 and send their combat card and send the chasqui card the units are very similar, except the chasqui have a build limit and trade a bit more hp for less attack, they don’t achieve anything the chimu doesn’t itself and are objectively worse because the chimu card also improves pikes and the chief while the chasqui card not only costs 500 gold but also only effects chasqui.
Also the chasqui is much worse than a chimu vs artillery and for raiding as the chasqui doesn’t snare and lacks the ability of the chimu to escape being snared itself and also lacks the multiplier vs artillery.

The only possible way the unit could be too good is in treaty to overpop but if that is an issue then make it cost population once you reach imperial age otherwise I see no issue with the unit.

1 Like
14

every single aspect about inca is just so fundamentally gimmicky and stupid that everything is either useless or absurdly op. Only the spearmen seem to find a middle ground. This just is another thing to add to the list, useless until its broken

6 Likes
15

imagine buffing native scout because they sucks, its pretty much the case of chasqui, they buffed them with a card and they are op

Like this is a scout… not a soldier so why this unit has coyote stat ( even more )

btw the fact you send a 500c card for them do not excuse everything, like the unit can garrison on TC and TP and you can build 16 or 17 of them or idk how many, imagine a rdm 17 chasqui ( coyote ) pop from the tp or tc, bruh ( also they have insane speed because yes this is a scout originally, a scout with 25 atk or smth )

3 Likes
16

look the age 4 stat for a scout, pretty good

17

That’s enough. I am quitting the game until they fix this guy and the arrow knights.

18

Not to derail the thread, but what’s wrong with arrow knights?

19

There have been complaints about the range of the Ak; its range is requested to be reduced.

20

The main problem with Chasquis is that they are a super-powerful fantasy unit. AOE is rooted in history. Arrow Knights are fantasy mortars/falconets/culvs that are cheap and quick to recruit. I just have had bad experiences getting stomped by them in multiplayer over and over. Age 4 muskets and skirms are hard-pressed to beat them at a fair resource cost. The hussars get eaten by all the Aztec anti-cav. OP units should at least have a good counter. So let’s get back to discussing Chasquis and Inca.