Village: 125 cost of wood is like Arabian Nights in the first age. Moving it to the first age will only reduce the necessity of Song dynasty. Stronger horseman and early village makes 2nd TC a better choice for China. Unlike The dynasty bonus, the production of two TC will not fade with new dynasty and it’s much safer. 75 wood 20 population 5 capacity 4 max number may be more reasonable
Granary：too too too expensive for ageII. Building costing 250 wood is never a good choice when you prepare transferring to agriculture. Three more farmland is always the better choice. Besides, the granary occupy too much space. It’s hard to reserve a place for it. If you decide to do it, the farmland will be further away from the mill, which is not worthfull. 150 cost of wood and 15% bones (not superposition) is recommended, and the max number can be cut down to 2.
Pagoda：How to say it… It can’t offer a stable income, which makes Yuan dynasty less attractive. It is suggested that pagoda offer a certain amount of resouces without relic, and more with relic
LAST… does it a little strange that there’s no special building in Ming dynasty?
New building means new work, i don’t think Reilc can do any more.
Village change might be ok since you can access it earlier v.s. more expensive and less HP (dont believe patch, originally village is 2000HP).
Granary is definitely garbage… I don’t believe any one will build it in any regular 11 map.
But the most import thing is IO nerf, it totally makes Chinese unplayable.
This patch changes made Chinese much weaker in comparison to most other civs. English, HRE, Abbasids got some crazy buffs but nothing comparable was given to Chinese.
Whenever Chinese is played in competitive, players go for Song Dynasty, this saves them 300 wood on houses, 100 wood per village. Now you save 75 wood less but you can build villages earlier.
So what? You don’t need 120 supply early in the game. You won’t be using 125 wood on a village, you will still be building houses instead until you get a decent wood production in Age 2.
No one is going to build villages in Age 1, so this patch is a giant nerf to Chinese Age 1 because now you need to build a gold drop-off building which you didn’t build in the past because you used taxes. But now that officials cost 50 gold this destroys the Chinese opening. You will now lose 0.5 villagers right away if you build an Imperial Official, so Chinese might not be building them in Age 1 anymore.
This also means Chinese gets 20% less food from sheep, because IO made sheeps give 20% more food. This is another hidden Chinese nerf that the developers snuck in with this change. But its another devastating nerf.
Meanwhile the devs just add 50 free Wood to English while simultaneously nerfing Chinese earlygame into the ground. Every IO costs half a villager to build now because of the train time. Thats a devastating nerf.
The granary change is a joke aswell. Yuan Dynasty and Ming Dynasty are too expensive for too little gain. Fire Lancers got nerfed into the ground. Yuan Dynasty speed boost is getting nerfed. Granaries were never used to begin with because 250 wood is too expensive. This might be worth it for 1 hour games, but 250 wood is completely unreasonable for its 15% gather rate.
Except now the cost is still 250 wood but the gather rate improvement is 10%, which is a complete scam. You are better off never building this building because its a gaint waste of ressources. You don’t have the wood to spend this much for so little gain. We know how gather rates work. A 10% buff is always less in practice and furhter increase has even more diminishing returns. 250 wood for a 7-8% gather rate increase is already way too expensive. Stacking Granaries is even worse.
It doesn’t take rocket science to realise in a game where Chinese gets no buffs while most other civs get very powerful buffs, they will fall behind. Except Chinese is already at the bottom and they need buffs.
Guys I think you all keep forgeting about Pagodas?
Should not be China powerhouse in late game?
Pagoda is basicily nerfed by 50% … imagine all the rivers of tears if Regnitz would give 150 gold instead of 300 … The fact u can get it age earlier (in Yuan) is dumb since nobody goes for YUAN early on and rather goes straight into imp (or for OP grenadiers if game allows it)
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All the changes for China are super dumb and Abbasids are gonna be superovertuned … or nobody sees it?
Abbasids beeing able to spamm castle every minute from 15 minit. mark on maps like mountain/French pass … thanks to grand bazaar in Feudal … yeah this is gonna improve teamgames by a mile … and thats just one example … seriously I would love to speak with balance members and would like to know their in-game time across all modes from 1v1 to 4v4 …
Can’t agree more, Chinese doesn’t get any buff but a later age 2. Besides, the worst thing for Chinese is every civ gets buff especially Abbaside and English, the early game for chinese will be a disaster.