Iron flails is not great but MH is juste the strongest hand cav of the game. I have never heard any top players asking for that kind of buff, china is reputed to have the best cav in fortress.
I am fine with buffing their age 2 a bit.
But adding 100f crate or anything that will buff their fortress is a big no.
Commerce Age can ship two flamethrowers
I think the 2 flamethrower shipment is probably the best buff you could give to China age 2 without making their age 3 even more broken so I am down for that change.
Its needed because China is way too slow and one-dimensional. Their fortress is by no means overpowered. Spain has amazing fortress scaling, same as Germany. Both civs are not nearly as slow as China. Germany much has better eco starting Age I already due to having settler Wagons. Spain gets strong eco from spanish gold. Both civs are top tier. China is bottom tier.
Thats a straight up lie.
China fortress can kinda be OP if you get to send all cards. They also dont run out of res as fast as other civs thanks to the free res/units they get from wonders and the ability to send the saiga card.
100 Food extra in age 1 might make them OP, but I like the refugee shipment suggestion (2 vills per TC and 1 vill per village).
2 flame throwers in age 2 aren’t gonna fix their issues, their anti inf options are good already (ckn great, steppe meh but okay).
We should be careful, it’s obvious that China kinda sucks right now, but too many buffs might make them too good again.
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Your suggestion is even stronger than 100f
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Its not overpowered, otherwise China would have been dominating the scene before DE, but according to tournaments that wasn’t the case.
You said it yourself, China feels much weaker. If I remember correctly, the british consulate bonus was nerfed, was it not? This is a huge nerf to China since in the vast majority of games, this option is chosen because China lacks a Musketeer unit otherwise.
You yourself suggested the food buff, and so did tons of other players. It is indeed true, China is behind all other civs in timing. Especially if other civs decide to go for 12/10 or 10/10 like Portugal. Portugal can already start building their 2nd TC and Docks while China is still aging up. France with 12/10 is already close to sending the first units out.
You talked about the fact that “China doesn’t run out of ressources as fast as other civs.” But thats simply not true. Germany gets free Uhlan with every Shipment, preserving their own ressources. Spain gets to send Spanish Gold, preserving their gold ressources. Due to Germany’s high map preassure, they can quickly gather up coin from the map while having their mobile army nearby. Brits can build houses for map vision and create villagers across the map to start herding the deers into their part of the map. All of these civilisations have great potential for map presence and vision. China doesn’t have that. China is forced to sit at home and FF until they can go out. Even Portugal, which is now a top civ, can deny the opponent ressources. Ports put their TC down into the middle of the map, or next to a TP. Then start gathering hunts nearby and build a barracks. This way, they are already gathering contested hunts from the start of Age 2 on. Even if the TC eventually goes down, they have denied a ton of food from their opponent and preserved their own, easy and save to gather food ressources.
Your statement about Flamethrowers is true. The unit is redundant with the Skirmisher. And its too expensive in wood. Not just the unit itself, the fact that you have to build a Castle, and ontop of that the 4 population cost is driving its wood cost up even more.
Given the fact that Brit consulate was nerfed, everything about China was already nerfed. They are not like russia with efficient units, because they will always have units that trade terribly, for example Changdao vs Skirm/Dragoon compositions.
Just look at the NWC lan tourney, china was dominating there, specially on new England map
I watched a game on New England. The deciding fight was won with the help of the Chinese Frigate Shipment into the little water Pond on New England. Obviously this map is vastly different from many other maps due to this pond. Many other civs like Brits can also ship a Frigate into this pond, so this is no argument for China being too strong.
Again, brit consulate has been nerfed since then, so all Chinese units are already weaker compared to the games played in that tournament on LAN.
I watched another China game, this time vs Germany. The China player instantly quit the game upon seeing the German advanced mercenary build due to 480 HP and 75 attack Musketeer mercenaries.
These games certainly do not prove that China is too strong, or was too strong. Its been nerfed since then aswell and now China is bottom tier, everyone is aware of it.
They just need a better early game.
Lukas suggested refugee card giving 2 vills for each tc and 1 per village which would really help with their early game without making the civ op.
The problem with buffing the brit consulate is that you would also be buffing india as their units are a bit too strong already, the option here could be to add a swedish consulate and giving them a good age 2 bonus, and units like maybe torpe wagons or something like that
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Agree, earlygame and age 2 need some help. China is way too slow to Age up to Age 2, now that every civ has fixed crate start and always gets their best build. They need 100 more food at the start. France with 12/10 just destroys China because its hits so fast. Portuguese 10/10 reaches Age 2 incredibly quickly and will start building Docks and TC next to water and start outbooming China before China even gets to Age 3.
I don’t think anyone would want to buff Brit consulate again, seeing that India is so strong it was already nerfed last patch due to having too high winrate.
The suggested changes to Russian consulate (10% less settler cost in addition to current reduced train time) aswell as unlocking the wood trickle in Age 2 from the german consulate could open up some variety in Age 2 in my opinion. The wood trickle is 250 export, so if you wanted to ship 300 export, its comparable to russia’s wood trickle, which is an Age I card. I don’t think that would be too strong.
3 Likes
Strongly disagree with this buff as it’s better than +100f. It’s litteraly +1 vill min 2. A 4 vills shipement with 2 villages? this seem insane
Weren’t you agreeing with this same buff 20 hours ago?
Ahah i should be more carefull, edited my first post 
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Idk I think its better than 100f.
100f will speed their ff and China will be broken with that.
With the extra villthey can still choose between getting a tp and faster shipments or an extra vill, which boost their eco but slows their shipment progression.
But you get 1 more vill, which mean you gather more food so your +1 vill offset the +100f and you have +1 vill the whole game. It’s take 2 min for 1 vill to payed off.
Lakota gets 4 villagers from Age I shipment and doesn’t have to build any houses and has fast Age up and isn’t broken.
All civs have guaranteed perfect crate start. France with 12/10 gets Age 2 much earlier and so they will have 4 cdb much earlier. China cannot compete anymore because their start is too slow, even if you eat your goat.
Of course they do. Late game china was screwed once they nerfed old Han. That’s the only reason they could keep up. China has always had issues with anti cav until manchus are shipped. China needs a buff.
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My dream is that they help you be not as useless vs cav with a Swedish consulate option