China thoughts after patch

2v2 china and russia vs china and rome

I am china from china and russia. Definitely such a victory after patch, no need of using clocktower to counter siege or even imperial supervision. normal lancers took care of siege very fast! they sent pikemen we sent cannoneer not even zhung nu then fire lancers at the late game and boom. we won i am happy.

Ive read about this mango showers after patch but still havent been there (yet).

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I’m happy as well.
China as my main civ, i have played 4 times 2vs2 since the patch. We won 2 times, 1 time the game dropped minutes before we won, and 1 time we lost because we where to passive after they captured secret sites.

I’m actually happy they nerved Siege, even though it heards my civ. But China has plenty of other options.

I do hope China gets a smaller buff on a Feudel age unit, and that the NOB gets fixed.
Not having mangonels, and facing HRE (on my recent lost game) with 50 MAA, sucks big time.
The solution was handcannoneers, but time run out due the the high costs, and the secret sites.

But hey, china has the answer on basically everything, it’s just bloody expensive. :blush:

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Its nice that you guys are having nice experiences but remember its only one or two games which mean nothing really.

Mind telling me what those options are?

It’s 4 games for me now, but actually more. This is because i never went around with a blob of siege, neither fire lancers.

I don’t really accept and use the things i hate! :slight_smile:

Zhuge Nu’s are extremely powerful if you make 40 - 50 of them, and let them walk with 15-20 spearman. Add 3 springyalds for the mangonels you face, and you can take up a lot of different army’s.
(I always pull 6 villagers as well to keep building ranges behind my offence line, cost efficient , Zhuge Nu are beasts with their 21 damage output)

Palace guard for running down mass siege, flanking it from 2 sides.

The strength from China is building speed, which i use to go song, triple TC as a standard. In about 12 minutes your eco is booming so hard, that it is almost impossible to run dry on resources.

Building speed again: wherever you go with your army, build walls all over. (With those villagers you pull with you) the enemy is gonna hate you. :blush:

Free pyrotechnics, go fast Imp, and the hand cannoneers you produce are battle ready right away.

Build your imperial palace across the map, 3 archery ranges and 3 stables around it so you have your hands on all dynasty specific units where you fight. FL for quick eco harassment by the enemy, and Zhuge Nu for an extremely cheap, high damage output unit.

But like i said, i do miss a functional NOB against a (f.e.) mass MMA.

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You are a 1000 elo player no? No offence but before you get zhuge nu your eco is raped by english Lb french knights mongol rush etc. Handcannon is NOT an answer to longbow rush and never will be

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Yes i am 1000 elo. :slight_smile:

I never claimed that hand cannoneers is the answer against longbow rush. That is your statement.

Watchtowers, split eco, and being quick with G and D are.
And Zhuge Nu deal very well with longbows.

You can stand longbow rush with 2 TC’s and split eco to get to Song in about 9 minutes.
I never really care about being harassed early stage, as long it isn’t HRE MAA. I can’t work with that.

Furthermore, i am basically down to 2vs2, haven’t played china in 1vs1 since november or so.

So if you look gor strategies or answers in 1vs1, don’t call me. :blush:

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Why don’t you go around 1400 elo in 2v2 then telling us you feeling about this?

200 villagers can kill 1 MAA. Does it mean 200 villagers are strong? I played a 4v4 match while ago. In the game I never made anything else than walls, TC’s and villagers. I had 199 villagers and 1 scout (couldn’t delete my own scout cuz they’re unkillable) and yet I won the game.

Do you understand my point? You can create any form of setup you want but just because it worked at your elo or single match it doesn’t mean its good or viable. One person I love to quote on this is actually current top tier player BeastyQT who used to play SC2 and in SC2 he made ridiculous strategies to reach high rankings. Like marine only to grandmaster etc where he climbed to high elo by using 1-2 units only.

I can tell you if you gonna go mass zhuge nu with spears at feudal or even castle that gets absolutely countered and destroyed by similar force of MAA.

Zhuge nu isn’t great unit especially with horses got another buff with armor making them more resilient and archers can just kite zhuge nu plus zhuge nu is more expensive to get than archers. Also they can’t deal with longbows, armored units and now horses are working against them too.

They do have place if you can get to them and they work well against spears and some cases if opponent isn’t kiting them against archers. They also do relatively well when used defensively against HA and mangudai, but it still doesn’t make them good or strong unit.

China has no strong units anymore. Yes on paper siege is still stronger than other civs but because the production was reduced to 1x to 0x (depends solely on reinforcement distance what kind of rate player is getting) its not even worth of mentioning and it was chinese identity which was now completely taken away from them.

Another fact is that china has no techs to boost their infantry, cavalry in feudal/castle/imp (PG +30 extra hp but PG is meme anyway) and all their civ specified techs are for gunpowder units which is solely nerffed to ground by making FL purpose different and making them more expensive to get meaning no reason to pick them up cuz lancers do same thing and are cheaper. Clockwork production is destroyed and so is landmark and over nerffed siege isn’t anymore giving the strength they needed and winrates for speak for itself.

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Why don’t you keep quiet and let me answer a question which was asked me?

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Keeping bully others in LOW elo doesn’t proof anything

You are not wrong. Chinese winning rate in 900 - 1100 elo 2v2 is actually fine, but the situation can be very different from 1v1 to 4v4 and 1000 elo to 1600 elo. If you don’t mind to spend a couple of minutes on, it’s obvious that Chinese is in a hard time. I tried to play as Chinese and won today, so I am not going to say Chinese is unplayable. However, I did feel that the civl is a lot weaker than before.


Going to hijack little bit here. At those elo ratings players shouldn’t be concerned at all how civilizations play and what is strong and what is weak the simple reason for this is players fail to execute build orders well and they lack knowledge / skill to play well which explains why they lose and hardly ever lose because civ is too strong or too weak.

I would say bare minimum to check is 1200 elo and even at those elo ratings players are still far from the point where civs matter that much, but they do start matter higher you go. This is why low elo players shouldn’t be taken into consideration

when it comes down to balance discussion and if something is strong or weak.

We will be lucky if we see china at all in any pro games where the money is on the line. Im fairly certain that the pickrate will be 0 or close to it and that will be very clear indication what ever civ is playable or not

You are correct, I literal mean that his exprience might not be able to prove if a civl is strong or not, but we do need to take the feeling of 1000 elo players into consideration as it is indeed true that Chinese, for now, may be a good civl for him and most of them eventually get higher elo.

About whether Chinese is unplayable, I never say Chinese doesn’t need compensation. I think “unpalyable” indicates that Chinese do not even have a chance to win any match. I played 2 4v4 and 1 3v3 today. In all three matches, I have Chinese in my team and won. We even had two Chinese and won in a 4v4 match, so it’s not that unplayable.

I think this leads some misunderstanding for you. I mean that Chinese was kind of in the middle tier before and it is a lot weaker, so it is actually too weak and some compensations maybe a good idea. As a Chinese main player, I wouldn’t be happier if Chinese beomce a stronger civl, but there is always a worst civl anyway. As long as I am able to win some games with Chinese, I do not care about tire that much.


Can I watch some of your replays? You seems to know a lot about China, and I want to learn China too.

My replays are not available anymore because the patch and not playing the game rn.

I can give you tips based on what you need to know tho so just let me know. Its probably better sent DM than talk about it in here

There is a slight snowball in statistics, since pick rate for chinese is lower in every elo. Which would mean that there is less tried and tested strategies, timings, compositions, counters etc. Allows for less experience with the civ and thus there is a probability that the lower win rate could be somewhat affected by these factors.

There are plenty of cases when players of different elos misjudge the good/bad of a civ or unit. Also there is a bias towards factions that one like or dislike.

Chinese has some difficult intricacies with their landmarks and timings with those aswell as a certain playstyle that might not always be advantageous.

Balance issues aren’t a quick solution, there needs time and actual data.

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hey there im also having great time with china, are you into playing together some 2v2 double chinese action?? (Im ELO 800 but that’s because of quitters/noobs as allies that I cant get rid of in quick matching, I reach castle age in 8:30 minutes and I consider myself a good player). Let me know im sure I’d learn a lot from one match with you

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Hej mate, would love to play double China on 2vs2, that will be awesome!
I don’t care about ELO hights, my 3vs3 and 4 vs4 Elo got completely destroyed in November/December by sync hackers and those Abbasid spearman who shot across the map.

I have played triple Abbasid before in 3vs3 with friends, and won. Hilarious
Look forward to go double China :slight_smile:

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