Hello, what can I do against a barbacane rush ? Nothing. PLEASE just add the militia like in age of empires 3. This need to stop it’s unplayable !!! just 5 weak units to defend age 2 PLEASE !
I just did the same things, just ignoring the barbican but how can he build it at 2 meters from my tc ?!! I just can’t produce villagers anymore and i’m ■■■■■■. I built 3 rams and it tooks me like 10 min bitween the tech and producing spearmens, then he had 20 chukonu and i’m done.
If he does it within 2 meters from your TC, put your villagers in your TC and shoot theirs.
Depends where you place it, you can put it jist outside the range of TC fire but close enough that the bbq cn snipe villagers that rally to the bbq side.
I gotta agree with the op here.
More and more people are using this now on the ladder and reaching very high ranks by only using this strategy
Barbican and chinese towers speed bonus shouldn’t apply when within 20 tiles of opponent’s tc. That would fix the problem, devs could even buff towers to have 100% faster speed outside the 20 tile range to compensate.
People may be able to deal with it in very high level, but its ruining the game experience for many people, specially newer players.
And now with bbq having springald emplacements avaliable on age 3, ppl can easily bbq rush and fast castle behind that.
And its no like chinese are weak now if they play normally.
Sounds like you’re not scouting it at all and not actually reacting to it properly.
Once you spot it and lets say china pulls 8 villagers to build BBQ. Then you pull 8-10 villagers to kill chinas villagers and stop BBQ. Simple as that.
To stop tower rushing as a whole, I think we should make Villagers shoot other Villagers with bows, similar to English Villagers
I dont think we should stop it as a whole. Mongol TR isn’t that hard to deal with, and if Chinese were to only use towers to TR it would be annoying to deal with, but wouldn’t be that bad, we just need more options to deal with them instead of just removing them from the game, with many players suggesting rams to be cheaper and stuff like that.
Maybe similar to how scouts work, villagers could have an attack bonus against other villagers, that wouldn’t be that bad either.
But a 5k hp building next to your base that shoots canon slits and now gets to have springald emplacement is a whole different thing. More and more people are doing this and its ruining the game for a lot people.
You can argue high level players can deal with it, but chinese are in a good spot now and no longer need to rely on builds like this to win games. Like yesterday watching demuslin playing chinese was such a treat and I wish I could see more of this from china rather than just cheese builds like this.
I really think that removing this rush will hardly affect how high level games are played with china, if anything it may even improve viewer experience, while greatly improving the game experience for medium and lower leagues.
Pull. Your. Own. Villagers. And. Scouts. When. You. See. It. Coming. And. Kill. Their. Vills.
Like. It’s really damn easy to stop guys. Are you fighting a chinese player? Use your scout to track Villagers. Assume it’s coming. At the VERY least you see it coming and can put a few walls up to hinder it.
No matter where they place it you can vil pull if you see it coming and kill theirs. The counter to it…now listen…is SCOUTING, and scouting alone makes it MUCH less effective.
Sure, they can get it up and maybe stop your gold or what have you, but just relocate. If they are going feudal WITH travel time, you should be able to be almost to feudal already, and then you make archers and deny more towers on your other gold/resources.
If they can build it on your base for free, sniping vils as the produce with it, It’s literally a “you are playing bad” issue, not an “OP needs nerf issue”.
Worst argument ever. Just because you don’t enjoy something what opponent is doing is not good justification for balance changes. Balance should never be considered when if something is fun or not. The issue is at this point if something is designed properly.
For example I don’t enjoy playing against or with english, french or rus. Do I think they’re too strong? Not particularly. Do I ask them to be nerffed or removed from the game? Nope.
If you let someone to build barbican next to your TC when you got all the tools to stop it then its on you and your execution.
Every time I get BBQ rushed which is rarely for some reason in 2v2. I just let ppl do what they want, because I see it massive advantage for myself. Rarely any TR causes enough dmg to me to be justified and after I reach castle which is always faster than opponent, I just go and kill them ignoring the towers etc.
You think BBQ with springald is different from towers with springald? Not really. Yes it has more HP and can be repaired, but it also means that china has no BBQ in home which is insanely important for china to keep themselves safe which leaves them completely vulnerable.
You can let the BBQ stay near your base and go around it and it does nothing. If you fail to stop it then its just important to make sure you got resources to covered up to continue your own game and leave it there. No point of making multiple rams and trying to take it down when its not necessary. I see lot of players going for panic mode and making rams and wasting time and resources on the stuff when just go around them and get bigger lead.
All it takes in feudal to make 2 archers and you stop all the feature towers coming up as long as you keep scouts near the base and got vision of your surroundings
Why not ban the building action of barbacane near the TC just like what they did to mongol’s TC.
Only after that can we buff the speed to age2 of Chinese for they were despair when facing HRE.
Barbacane rush has nothing funny at all I mean really.
Wasnt that the whole point of many of the balance changes we had so far? Like siege nerf, nerf to springald in early patch or the nerf to fishing? Among several other changes that were aimed to improve player experience even though a lot of them didnt affect balance that much.
All of these strategies to stop or deal with bbq rush are very good on paper but executing them mid match when there are lots going on is another different thing, in some maps and depending on the spawn bbq rush+towers can pretty much completely deny resources, if you have limited woodline, its prrtty much game over, so just ignoring the rush isnt viable
Also there is no way to deny bbq when there are 6 to 8 vills building it, you may kill half of them by pulling vills, but it will definitely go up
Also china is very capable now to build their eco behind the rush while the defender has to constantly move vills around.
Making bbq building at normal speed when near opponent tc wont do any harm to the game and players would still be able to use it for map control
Those strategies were too strong and left very little counterplay to do it. For example earlier springalds. If opponent made springalds and u didn’t you would essentially lose and if you lost springald war you would lose the game. Adding more counterplay to something like they did in last patch is good idea but how they executed it was poor because now siege is either harder to kill or way too easy to kill which is not balanced at all.
They’re not just good on paper but they’re also good on practical use and proven to work. If you want to blame strategy for your losses instead if looking at yourself and improving from your mistakes then thats all on you and you will never get as good as you could or if u do it will take longer than it would if you just analyzed what failed instead of trying to remove the strategy from the game. Every game that I lose, I think what could’ve I done better and even strategies that are way harder to deal with I try to figure out ways to deal with them and oh boi u have not experienced stronger things if you just lose to mere TR or BBQ rush because those exist especially in TG’s.
I have done very few BBQ rushes and Im not expert of doing it but what I do know from experience that if opponent pulls more villagers than you’re using they will always stop it as long as they react on moment BBQ is started. I personally don’t pull villagers against TR or BBQ rush especially against BBQ if I scout it early. I just place unfinished palisade in few key locations that I don’t want it to go up which leaves a lot more breathing room for me and if rusher decides to still make it they have to chose worse location that they had initially planned. Even using scouts to block some locations.
So you don’t see china pulling 50% of their workers to your side of map and moving them around as expense but if defender has to move villagers then its too costly?
It kills BBQ rush completely and makes any form of BBQ on middle of map much riskier thing to do and too easy to deny plus it will effect feudal age timings greatly because villagers spent longer time building it somewhere which results any form of BBQ outside of TC radius to be never be used again because its not worth and this is why suggestions like this are bad. All ppl look to is delete / remove strategies from the game that they don’t like even if its not issue with balance.
Adding more option to counter BBQ rush is only and best way but it can’t be too easy or cheap otherwise it also removes the strategy from game.
You could still build it at 100% speed in the map, the penalty would just apply when within 20 tiles of opponent’s TC. This is something beasty suggested.
Also its not just me complaining, there are several people who complain about this too. Ppl shouldnt be able to just casually build a 5k hp building which was intended to be a defensive landmark near the opponents base and get away with it.
Same thing applies to bbq. You pretty much have a 5k hp building in your base that shoots canonslits and the only thing that can counter it is rams which take forever to build.
Its not worst idea but it would still kill the BBQ rush and it wouldn’t help ppl who are lacking ability to scout something and act properly.
Ppl complain about everything. ??? So yeah not really good argument.
But they’re not? 1 worker collects around 40 resources per minute rate which if it takes 30 seconds for villager to travel to opponents base its about 20 resources lost which with 8 villagers would translate to 160 resources invested only to walking then delays that scouts may cause + building time and we’re looking easily over 250 resource advantage for defender and when defender pulls vills then they start losing resources meanwhile china is constantly losing the resources so defender is always ahead by large margin
It only becomes advantage if the BBQ manages to achieve something which against lower elo players do work because their reaction speed is slower than snail so it results them losing villagers and panicking and doing wrong things and then proceed to complain strategy.
“defensive landmark” If china is defending their kingdom and its whole map? Isn’t that defensive purpose then? Why not just have big wall across the map and split map in 2 and that wall cannot be destroyed but vanishes after 30mins to ensure that ppl can play simcity for 30mins and then try fighting?
Ram is not just counter play to it. I have said already that you can just ignore BBQ and go to chinas base which is very vulnerable and kill villagers. Why waste resources on something that just sits there and won’t do much if you play correctly? Rams is one of the stupidest investments that player can do against BBQ rush or even TR rush. Just like you stated it takes long time to build and it costs lot of resources so you’re already falling to trap that TR is trying to achieve which is giving offensive player the lead. If you want to take it down its better go castle age and get single treb out. Deals more dmg and doesn’t have risk of getting destroyed and has a lot more value outside of just taking BBQ or tower down.
Then you got option to block BBQ which depends heavily on the map seed and your own ability to scout and react by placing unfinished palisade around your important resources which is not resource lost, but also forces china to delay age up giving you even more advantage
You can also pull villagers +2 to chinese numbers and moment BBQ goes down you will stop it coming up and kill their villagers and get lead with tech and economy.
You got way more options to deal with BBQ than you had with springalds. With springalds u had to go springalds or try cavalry / infantry but if you went something like horseman then opponent could keep spears on top of it while springalds dealt the dmg. China has nothing to protect their base or protect BBQ.
Whenever I get TR by mongol, I reach castle age 1-2 mins before them and by that time its basically over for mongol because the moment he gets into castle Im already there with lancers. Same applies to china. Actually strongest TR what I have faced is from dark age abba + english comb but its more of ram rush with stonewalls which is one of the craziest strategies to even try coming up counter play or French who is spamming knights and making towers around your base.
I havent faced that one yet, but i have heard of these on redit.
I guess we just have different opinions but its fine. This is what forums are for.
I know only 2 players that execute this in 2v2 and I have concluded that there is only 2 counters to it. 1 is that your ally goes fast castle into all in and kill opponents while rushed player just delays them as much as possible or 2nd counter play english or french and get to feudal faster than english can and deny stone walls. Outside of that nothing that I can think of would work.
English villagers slaughter spears like butter and towering up is pointless because you cant deny council hall coming up and you lose villagers on each tower because ranged attack of english villagers and nothing you do in feudal can fight against LB on stone wall.
So only thing that actually kills them is another english getting to feudal faster with longbows or french getting few knights out and raiding abbasid and stopping rams that way. Anything else either dies to lb’s or villagers.
HRE could probably to early MAA with prelates healing and trying to stop council hall
I’m interested to know how many people are getting plat just by doing bbc rush. It requieres no skill. You just build inside your opponent’s base and you won a 4 minutes game. Wahoo ! In fact, many people just don’t know how to deal with it. In my oppinion, a game just have to be fun. I don’t see where is the fun in it. No skill and unfair. A tower why not but not a 5k hp building. Building rams against it takes wayyy too much time if you are not playing abbassids in my oppinion. Don’t forget that most of people on the game are casual players too. I’m not playing age of empire to do villagers fights.
And there are many other things that are just annoying in 2vs2 like playing against mongols/russ spaming cav archers, or french/hre that rushing castle age just by giving their gold to teammate where the opponent can barely get feodal. Its just broken strats not funny to play against at all. There is no more place in the game for those ■■■■ strats
China still has one of the lowest win rates across the board??? So either this strat isn’t being used to success like you think it is or most ppl are not deploying it.
Also if you don’t know how to stop a tower rush with villager scput pulls and preventative wall segments then play dark age safely vs china vs mongol vs English **(sometimes) by startng with at least 2 villagers on wood at all time. This will fund making reactive towers to keep enemy from wrapping your woodlines with towers and or the ability to make a barracks and produce units to kill the enemy villagers!!!