Chronicles: Roman civilisation concepts

Age of Empires II: DE II - Discussion
1

Disclaimer

This thread is not about if Romans should be added to Chronicles, what other civilisations should be added first and whether Diadochi civs should be added or not!

It’s about ideas in the case they add Romans to Chronicles at some point in the future.

Rome is split into Republic and Empire because the mod Rome at War does that too.

Roman Republic

Infantry and Skirmisher civilisation

Bonuses

  • Infantry +1 attack per Age Starting in Civic Age (Feudal Age)
  • Skirmishers, Spearman and Scout Cavalry train 10/20/30% faster in Civic/Classical/Imperial Age
  • Goose +3 LOS
  • Town Centres (excluding the first one) are build 50% faster and cost 20% less Wood and Stone (220 Wood 80 Stone)

Team Bonus

  • One free Goose on first TC

Unique Units

  • Triarius (Castle): Heavy Infantry
  • Hestatus (Barracks): Unique Levy (Milita) Line upgrade
  • Veles (Archery Range): Unique Skirmisher Line upgrade

Triarius

  • 2/2 base armour
  • 1 Range like Kamayuk
  • +1 HP for every allied Infantry that dies nearby (up to 20 (30 Elite))

Heavy soldiers at the rear of the Roman army. They are the most experienced (their experience is symbolised by gaining HP) that come into action when the Hastati fail.

You are actually incentivise to keep them out of the action so they can grow in strength while your other units do the fighting.

Hestatus

  • Same as AoE2 Legionary

They are the main force of the Roman Army but they are only available in Imperial Age.

Veles

  • Same as AoE2 Imperial Skirmisher

The Roman Republic doesn’t have good cavalry or siege so they rely on Skirmishers to counter Archers.

Unique Technologies

  • Classical Age: Infantry, Skirmishers and Foot Archers gain +1/+1 armour
  • Classical Age: Barracks and Archery range are build 50% and work 50% faster
  • Imperial Age: Hastati gain ranged charged attack (Pilum) similar to Fire Lancer
  • Imperial Age: Skirmishers gain charged attack that throws 3 spears with low accuracy that do full damage, even if they miss.

Available Technologies

  • Hoplite and Elite Hoplite
  • All Blacksmith upgrades
  • All Ship line upgrades

Missing Technologies

  • Husbandry and Bloodlines
  • Thumb Ring and Parthian Tactics
  • Imperial Cavalry (Paladin)
  • Laminated Bowman (Crossbow)
  • Siege Onager
  • Siege Engineers
  • Shipwright

Concept

They can use their starting goose for scouting (be careful of the Celts) and use it for a small eco boost.

Their army is build up of main units Velites (Skrimisher), Hastati (Swordsman), Principes (Hoplites) and Triarii. In the Roman Empire those units are all combined into the Legionary. While this exact combination of swords and spears was likely never deployed like this it still captures the general army composition of Republican Rome relatively well.

Their Cavalry and Archers are already bad in Classical Age.

Roman Empire

Infantry and Siege civilisation

Bonuses

  • Towers cost 100 Wood 75 Stone
  • Towers train Spearman
  • Can train Villagers for 50 Gold at the Market in Classical (Castle) Age
  • Free Spearman, Skirmisher and Scout Cavalry for every Barracks, Archery Range and Stable build
  • All buildings work 1% faster for each University technology researched (that even includes Age up)

Team bonus

  • Barracks provide 5 population

Unique Units

  • Legionary (Barracks): Allround Infantry that can built military buildings
  • Centurion (Castle): Infantry that buffs nearby Infantry

Legionary

  • Has charged range attack (Pilum)
  • Can built any Military Building
  • Can repair any Building, Ship and Siege Unit
  • Grant up to +3 pierce armour to nearby Legionaries (reverse Hoplite bonus)
  • Elite versions grants up to +1 melee armour to nearby Legionaries (reverse Hoplite bonus)
  • Exists next to the Levy (Milita) Line

Solid Infantry unit that can built forward bases. In formation they are very resistent against arrows but weak on their own.

Their ability to repair Siege Units can be very powerful.

Centurion

  • Is an actual Infantry this time
  • Expensive to train
  • Nearby Infantry attack 20% (30% Elite) faster

Unique Technologies

  • Castle Age: All Centurion auras affect Scorpions. Aura range increased.
  • Castle Age: All buildings slowly regenerate HP
  • Imperial Age: Centurion provide +1/+1 armour to nearby Legionaries (and Scorpions if other UT is researches)
  • Imperial Age: Siege Units and Skirmishers +1 range

Available Technologies

  • All Blacksmith upgrades
  • Gastraphetoros (Hand Cannon)
  • Husbandry
  • Imperial Cavalry
  • All Siege Workshop units (besides Siege Ballista)
  • Siege Engineers

Missing Technologies

  • Bastion (Keep)
  • Thumb Ring and Parthian Tactics
  • Bloodlines
  • Elite Lembos
  • Hoplite Line

Concept

They have strong Infantry supported by Siege units instead of Skirmishers. They still get good Skirmishers though. Their main Siege bonus is Legionaries being able to repair Siege Units.

Their mid game Cavalry and Archers are bad but they get Imperial Cavalry and Gastraphetoros in Imperial Age

In the late game all their buildings work faster which helps out with pretty much everything.

Combined Romans

Alternative to splitting the Romans into 2 (not 3 since the Kingdom is certainly not important enough to be it’s own civ).

Bonuses

  • Can switch from Kingdom to Republic and then to Empire but can’t switch back
  • Infantry +1 attack per Age Starting in Civic Age (Feudal Age)
  • Free Spearman, Skirmisher and Scout Cavalry for every Barracks, Archery Range and Stable build
  • All buildings work 1% faster for each University technology researched (that even includes Age up)

Kingdom:

  • Villagers carry +5 resources
  • Hoplites cost -15 Food
  • Republic is available

Republic:

  • Cost 150 Gold
  • Lose all Kingdom bonuses
  • Town Centres (excluding the first one) are build 50% faster and cost 20% less Wood and Stone (220 Wood 80 Stone)
  • Legionary and Skirmisher cost -10 Food
  • Empire becomes available

Empire:

  • Cost 300 Gold
  • Lose all Republic and Kingdom bonuses
  • Villagers and Legionaries gather, build and repair 5% faster
  • Cavalry moves 10% faster (replaces Husbandry)

Switching is irreversible (unlike Athenian Policies) and you lose previous bonuses. The bonuses are designed to be helpful in Early, Mid and Late Game respectively so you should change sooner or later.

Team bonus

  • One free Goose on first TC

Unique Units

  • Legionary (Barracks): Allround Infantry that can built military buildings
  • Centurion (Castle): Infantry that buffs nearby Infantry

Legionary

Same as above

Centurion

  • Nearby Infantry +1/+1 armour

Base bonus and UT reversed compared to Empire version

Unique Technologies

  • Classical Age: Barracks and Archery range are build 50% and work 50% faster
  • Castle Age: All buildings slowly regenerate HP
  • Imperial Age: Centurion make nearby Legionaries, Skirmishers and Scorpions attack 33% faster
  • Imperial Age: Siege Units and Skirmishers +1 range

Available Technologies

  • Hoplite but no Elite Hoplite
  • All Blacksmith Upgrades
  • All Siege Workshop technologies
  • Imperial Cavalry (Paladin)
  • Gastraphetoros (Hand Cannon)

Missing Technologies

  • Husbandry (replaced by Empire bonus) and Bloodlines
  • Thumb Ring and Parthian Tactics
  • Laminated Bowman (Crossbow)
  • Siege Engineers

Concept

The Roman army started with Hoplites before they switched over to Legionaries. In the end Cavalry become increasingly important. This transition is symbolised by the 3 stages Kingdom, Republic, Empire.

The economy also reflects the change. At first your villagers are good at collecting natural resources (they carry more), then during the Republic you can quickly build new TC to expand your economy and at the end in the Empire you have efficient Villagers that leave you a little more pop space for Military units.

This would also prevent there being 4 Roman civs in AoE2 (Republic and Empire in Chronicles, Late Empire and Byzantine Empire in AoE2).

6 Likes
[poll] Another Future Chronicles Civilisations Poll
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with the experimental mechanics in chronicles it would be best to have the combined civ with a government change tech like the policies of athens (maybe more permanent), and then restrict in campaign as it suits the specific scenario.

This avoids having another two civs and with a two word name, but still they probably CAN’T be named exactly “Romans“ as it conflicts with regular ao2 Romans (reason why Achamenids, not Persians). One of them HAVE to change its name and calling the ancient ones them “Latins“ would probably the best solution.

3

That was my 3rd suggestion.

I think SPQR or Imperium Romanum could be fitting names. But names are the least important thing tbh, they are just a few letters in the UI.

1 Like
4

I feel like if they are given the opportunity, there will be two more chronicles and they will cover the Republic and then the Empire. The Empire then leads neatly into Age 2 proper.

Like the mod I feel/hope there will be the two variants. I don’t want to recreate the Punic wars playing against the AI expecting the Republic then they change a policy to the Empire.

Also, I imagine the civs will have to have Legionaries, even from the start. Even if it’s not accurate, that’s what people expect and the campaign will cover enough time that the civ will ultimately have them. Maybe they don’t get them in the campaign from the beginning. Though maybe having different names for them is not a huge deal.

I like your layout for the two variants.

5

That option would obviously be blocked in the Campaign. While you would be automatically starting as Empire in later Campaigns.

You mean from Classical Age instead of just Imperial Age?

Hastati would look like Legionaries, just with the older more round shields they used during the Punic Wars.

6

I’m not interested in Chronicles but I am interested in geese! What is the reference here?

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The Gauls besieged Rome in around 387 BC. They captured all of the city but the Capitol.

One night they wanted to attack but the Geese noticed them and made noises that alerted the guards, this way they were able to defend the Capitol hill.

Even centuries later this incidence was as an excuse for attacking and killing Gauls.

3 Likes
8

That option would obviously be blocked in the Campaign. While you would be automatically starting as Empire in later Campaigns.

I was talking about skirmish - I like to recreate historical scenarios in skirmish matches - Though skirmish players probably aren’t the devs main concern anyway.

That said I wouldn’t want two expansions involving campaigns playing the same faction, the Republic and Empire for me would need to be quite different civs and not just a policy change mechanic. I Just don’t think they can fit all of Rome in one expansion.

You mean from Classical Age instead of just Imperial Age?

I just mean naming wise, If they are going for the broad appeal that Rome promises. The one thing the average person knows about Roman armies is the Legionaries, so they will probably expect it in the dlc.

Granted this is a niche expansion for a 25 year old game so maybe they shouldn’t worry about the broad average person and can name it more accurately to the Republic’s time period.

One night they wanted to attack but the Geese noticed them and made noises that alerted the guards, this way they were able to defend the Capitol hill.

The poor guard dogs did not fair well after that night :frowning:

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Fantastic! A real-life example of scouting with herdables! (Sort of.)

1 Like
10

I find the third concept the most interesting, purely because it’s different to 1 and 2 of it mechanic that fit in with Chronical. The other two just feel too generic and have nothing unique mechanically about them . But I don’t mind if there are two Rome versions as long as they are different. But 2 is more Then enough! One is also okay.

I think what I would like is for the Roman to have the legionary/equivalent as a unique levy line replacement. So the complete line has the visual of the Roman legionary military.

Also, a new building that I can think of for Rome (for the empire version) is an Auxilia Camp, a 3 Age building where you can build units from other factions (no castle units). In this building, out of 5 unit lines, you can unlock 2 lines. Each line is a unit from a civilisation that the Roman Empire has conquered. For example, there could be a Hoplite (Greek), a war chariot (Archimedes), an axe rider (Gauls), one unit from Carthage, and one unit from somewhere else. All lines have the elite upgrade. There is also a castle tech that enables a third unlock and faster production speed.

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11

Oh that’s right. I prefer 2 Romes too but I wanted to add the combined one as an option.

Considering that they haven’t reused any base game unit names yet (unless it’s just the same unit) I think they won’t use the name “Legionary”. I don’t think people mind if the unit is officially named something else as long as it clearly looks like a Legionary.

I think the percentage of history nerds is relatively high so there would probably be more people being upset about them looking wrong or being named wrong then people being upset about them not being like in pop culture.

I thought about adding some system like a Senate but that would be like a modified Policy system. Or alternatively a Milita System for the Republic where you can turn villagers into soldiers, but that would be a pain to balance.

In some ways their unique mechanic would be the Centurion but that is kinda just a remix of the Spartan and Athenian Aura mechanic.

I would have really liked doing a system like the Macedonian Outposts to symbolise the Roman road systems but that also already exists.

Puru and Thracians also don’t have a unique mechanic.

Thought about that but I think it’s probably better to make that a campaign feature. That is pretty much what you do in the Alexander campaign and it would fit even better into the Roman campaign.

12

I thought about adding some system like a Senate but that would be like a modified Policy system

They could have something like a consul you have to elect, a choice between a few Polemarch-like units that take to field and give different bonuses, at a time and can be replaced. Kind of a cross between the Spartans and Athenians system, maybe too similar.

I guess two at a time would be more accurate might make bonuses complicated

13

But why don’t you try doing it? I’d love to hear how you’d incorporate the Senate into an AOE game mechanic. I think you shouldn’t limit your creativity by thinking too much about balancing. The first thing you should consider is whether it gives the game something new or interesting game dynamik, it should be fun to use, and how hard it is to understand and use . Simple is better than complex. Too much micro-management isn’t much fun for casual players. thise are the more important points then balancing. Balancing is important too, but I have often seen people claim that things are OP or useless just by reading the descriptions, but when in they tested it, it wasn’t like they thought it would be.
And in chronicles, it is easier to implement unique mechanics than in the base game.

Yes, you are right. They don’t have outstanding mechanics like Athen or Archemiedis, but they have some small ones: the Thracian Tower/Fort Drop Off and Puro the UT, which give Castle enhancements that have to be upgraded by every Fort individually. How ever, this should not be the standard for designing Chronical Civs. Chronical is the place wher Civs Get a littel bit more asymmetrical by unique mechanics.

Just because something has been used in a campaign doesn’t mean it can’t also be used in a civic design. In my opinion, the design of a civilisation should portray its historical counterpart in all its glory. One characteristic of the Roman military was their use of auxiliary troops. So why not reflect this in the tech tree with a unique mechanic? Rome has many characteristics, so it could be something else, but a Camping mechanic should not be prevented from being used as a Civ mechanic.

1 Like
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I don’t see the Republican Romans as a “skirmisher” civ. I would say infantry only.

15

I’ll think about it. If I come up with something I’ll add it.

That is actually an interesting mechanic, but one that might even work in a base AoE2 civ.

I think mercenaries/auxiliary units would be strange in a random map setting because you have strange things like Romans using Gothic auxiliaries to fight Gauls. If you combine Republic and Empire into one civ then it would be even strange because you can have those Gothic or even Hunnic auxiliaries fight Carthage or something. Or generally fight civs with their own units.

And yes there are other anachronistic things in AoE2 but I also dislike those, like Goth Handcannons.

If you want an Infantry civ you need to give them something to deal with Archers or else they will just die. Skirmishers were used a lot by ancient Romans so it would be fitting.

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16

I think i would more be a Romen Empier Thinke. Both i fail to see why it would be Strange on random Map. From my point of view, it would make sense for the Roman Empire to use specific troops against enemies when they can help me to win, even if they come from the other end of the empire. A historical example would be the Battle of Carrhae, in which the Romans used Gallic cavalry against the Parthians. So it wouldn’t be completely unhistorical.

But I must say, I think the Mechanik would cause more problems in the campaign. Because there it wouldn’t make sense when they have access to units that weren’t there historically or weren’t part of the Romans at the time.

17

I think one of the core problems of that mechanic is that it would force them to make the Romans as the last civ. They can’t have units from all those other civs if the other civs aren’t in the game yet.

That is something I suggested for AoMR. Add the Romans as the last civ and give them a mechanic where they can train units from other Pantheons as auxiliaries by worshipping gods from other pantheons.

1 Like
18

Not sure about early Romans but Romans in aoe2 should definitely have a foederati mechanic/UT. There was barely any Roman in the western army of the 5th century.