I don’t think it would be that big of a deal, sending the sheep over is also very all in and susceptible to being taken by enemy scouts, or by simply preventing the tati rush 11
Yeah but you still will take dmg from arrows if you raid or so and sometimes you need to engage so it definitely helps. Also how Indiams don’t excel with camels with cheap vils for more production and raiding potential bc of armor and atk vs buildings?
You’re right in your prioritizing but the point here is that indians don’t really lack last armor. You get +2 pa for free in imp so it’s like like free plate barding minus that one melee armor. And one melee armor isnt important for hussars.
I really don’t get what all this recent identity talk is about. Just because one popular streamer said devs took away identity from incas everbody uses that term all of the sudden? But anyways if you insist on using that term what about the civ of mobile counters? Camels counter cav, light cav with extra pierce armor counter archers and cav archer counter pikes. The civ isn’t only unique in lacking knights but precisely in switching between these three units in mid game backed up by strong eco. Imo this makes it one of the most interesting to play civs.
You have a lot of options with this civ. Sure you can tech into these units with other civs (although the extra pierce armor on camels is unique to them and same on light cav to them and turks) but there isn’t any point going for this units if you can’t get upgrades. What makes a civ diverse is also what that comp looks like the ages to follow and your eco/military bonuses supporting them, i. e. diversity is much more than tech tree options on paper.
I see your point, but IMO the mobile counter identity belongs to Byzantines, with their cheap camels for anti-cav, cataphracts for anti-infantry, Paladin for anti-archer and Hussar for anti-monk.
I always considered the Indian identity to be camels that could approximately fill the role of knights, and they’ve been nerfed to the point that they barely fill the role of camels. For example, let’s look how they perform vs enemy Hussars. Without Plate Barding Imperial Camels take 9 damage per hit, which negates their extra 20 HP and makes them die in the same 18 hits as a fully upgraded heavy camel, and it still takes 4 hits from either heavy or imperial camel to kill. So the Imperial Camel gives no benefit, while requiring a massive upgrade cost (it was originally designed to take 20 hits and perform better than heavy camels).
Now let’s see how this works in larger battles. Maybe you’re facing Berbers and they send 50 Hussars to attack (3200 food cost). 20 Imperial Camels lose this fight, but 21 typically win (1155 food + 1260 gold). This means it is cost efficient only as long as 100 food is valued above 62 gold, which in late Imperial 1v1 is unlikely. The “best” camel civ ends up having to spam subpar Halberdiers to counter light cavalry.
In contrast, Berbers themselves could counter 50 Hussars with the same 21 heavy camels (maybe 19 or 20 depending on regeneration) costing only 924 food + 1008 gold, which remains cost effective until 100 food drops below 44 gold, and they didn’t have to spend 1200 food + 600 gold to research their camel upgrade (just plate barding for 350 food + 200 gold).
In addition to better camels, Berbers have a similar, but better tech tree, with Cavaliers, Genitours, fully upgraded Champions, and a better unique cavalry archer than the elephant. Indians have economy, but I just don’t think that’s enough to define a civilization, even if it does help them outboom opponents and win in the mid game.
Byzantines? Well yeah it’s a counter civ but nothing about them is mobile apart from camels. The civ is mostly seen for either fast imp arb play or the slow halb skirm siege castle push. Camels are a legit option but paladin you don’t do as byz and catas are rare bc it’s so expensive and comes in late.
So byz rather would be the civ of slow counters. Btw that’s also why there are great on closed maps while Indians are not. As opposed to byz indians counters shine with mobility and also rather in castle age compared to imp.
This precisely is why that identity talk is bad for the game. Different people will consider different aspects of the civ forming their identity. You consider it a camel civ, I consider it an eco and mobile counter civ for instance. Both aren’t mutually exclusive and operate at different levels. So imo: F*ck identity and lets just play the game 
Strongest thing in the game is economy. Berbers has great military and versatility but they go toe-to-toe against Franks which is supposed to weak against Berbers but it is not, because Franks has better eco than Berbers. Franks, Aztecs, Chinese, Vikings doesn’t have strong military but they are top tier civs because they have economy. Therefore, Indians also stronger than Berbers because it has better eco. It is sad that game revolve around eco bonuses and generic units but it is reality.
Except according to the stats, berbers has a >50% winrate against franks…
In tournaments, it is around 50% win rate, Berbers win 1 game, Franks 1 game in another match. Normally, Berbers should dominate Franks because it has all units to counter Franks.
Except there is more to balance then just having counter units. By that logic goths should flat own all archer civs but they dont.
Goth and archer civ situation is different, In order to counter archer civs, Goth need castle and time to mass Huskarl. Also simple longsword counter Huskarl easily. Therefore, archer civ go longsword and archer against Goth Huskarl and champion spam. In endgame, Goth gain upper hand, however Goths most likely die until late game.
Countering Franks with Berbers is much more easy because Berbers only need Castle Age and stable to counter Franks, that is all. Afterwards, Berbers side can go castle and camel archer in order to counter pikeman. Camel Archer is insane unit in Castle Age btw, stronger than Mangudai due to 1 more attack. It counter everything other than Skirmisher, maybe crossbow also softly counter Camel Archer. Huskarl ,on the other hand, counter archers but easily countered by melee units.
10% faster villager also more resilient Franks scout+knight raiding as well. Berbers has simply all option to counter Franks but it has pretty much equal match-up against Franks until now.
Also Goth can’t countering archer civ also support my “game revolve around eco bonuses and generic units” claim because Goth has weak eco and its strong military can’t save him just like Berbers. Berbers isn’t as bad as Goths but it isn’t as dominative as on paper because it has weak eco.