# Civilization Concepts **URL:** \ **Category:** II - Discussion\ **Created:** [February 15, 2026, 12:17pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/civilization-concepts/284070 "2026-02-15T12:17:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 32
**Author:** ![SMUM15236](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/smum15236/32/29763_2.png) [@SMUM15236](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/SMUM15236)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2026, 5:23pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/civilization-concepts/284070/626 "2026-07-30T17:23:55Z")
> [@DynasticPlanet5](#): > > how will the bonus resistance scale? You can see the UU stat on my proposal. 8 for non-elite and 10 for Elite. > [@DynasticPlanet5](#): > > Royal heirs gives -3 damage vs an otherwise unused armor type. I’m gonna guess that infantry would get -10 and this unit would have -3 then 0 as an example I actually have no idea how to implement that. ---
**Author:** ![SMUM15236](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/smum15236/32/29763_2.png) [@SMUM15236](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/SMUM15236)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2026, 4:00pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/civilization-concepts/284070/627 "2026-08-30T16:00:01Z")
RIP to this **Saxons** design I guess. Anyway, 2nd attempt at Avars. # **Avars** # (One dimensional) Cavalry Civ Team Bonus - Steppe Lancer +2 attack bonus vs building. Civilization Bonus - Can build pasture. (Assuming pasture is balanced) - Pastures provide 1 extra animal. - Start with a Steppe Scout. - Steppe Scout is available in Feudal Age. Unique Techs - Stable units return 40% cost. (200f/200g, 40 sec) - Steppe Lancer deal thrust damage [like Ghulam]. (600f/450g, 50 sec) Unique Units 1. Steppe Scout Can be trained in Stable from Feudal Age. Automatically upgraded to Steppe Lancer in Castle Age. Training Time - 48 sec HP : 45 Attack : 3 in Dark Age, 6 in Feudal Age Range : 0 in Dark Age, 1 in Feudal Age Speed : 1.20 in Dark Age, 1.45 in Feudal Age LOS : 4 in Dark Age, 5 in Feudal Age Rest stats are same as Steppe Lancer 1. CA version of Konnik Cost : 45w/65g Training Time : 18 sec HP : 55, 65 (mounted); 30, 35 (dismounted) Armor : 0/0 (both) Attack : 6, 8 (mounted); 5, 6 (dismounted) Range : 4, 5 (both) LOS : 6, 7 (both) Speed : 1.45 (mounted); 0.96 (dismounted) ROF : 2.0 (both) Accuracy : 80% (mounted); 90% (dismounted) **Tech Tree (Missing techs and units)** Barracks - Champion, Regional Unit Range - Arbalester, HC, Regional Unit Stable - Camel, BE Siege - SR, SO, HS, BBC, Regional Unit Blacksmith - Bracer, Plate Mail Monastery - Redemption, Atonement, Block Printing, Theocracy Dock - Heavy Demo, FFS Uni - Architecture, Keep, BBT, SE, Arrowslit, Heated Shot, Carvel Hull, Siphon Castle - Hoarding Eco - Final wood and stone techs Now I gave them not only Knight but also even Paladin. ---
**Author:** ![MatM1996](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/matm1996/32/29566_2.png) [@MatM1996](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/MatM1996)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2026, 10:44pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/civilization-concepts/284070/628 "2026-08-30T22:44:03Z")
> [@SMUM15236](#): > > RIP to this **Saxons** design I guess. They could still rework them in the future…😅 ---
**Author:** ![SMUM15236](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/smum15236/32/29763_2.png) [@SMUM15236](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/SMUM15236)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2026, 5:44pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/civilization-concepts/284070/629 "2026-09-20T17:44:27Z")
In the heat of all the speculations of Saracens split DLC in the near future, here is a design for Bedouins with an independent Pasture design: Team Bonus Cavalry Archer Units +2 attack bonus vs. Buildings. Civ Bonus - Mill can train sheep at 25 food cost in 35/30/25/20 seconds in Dark/Feudal/Castle/Imperial Age. - Blacksmith upgrades are free to research an age later they are available. - Camel Rider and Cavalry Archer are +15% faster. UTs - Cavalry Archers gold cost is reduced by 50%. (300 food/200 wood, 40 sec) - Melee Camel units deal +5 charge attack in 20 seconds interval. (500 food, 400 gold, 45 sec) UU Highly armored melee Camel Unit Camel (50 food, 60 gold) HP : 105, 130 Attack : 9, 12 Melee Armor : 4, 6 Pierce Armor : 1, 2 Firing Rate : 2 Speed : 1.45 LOS : 5 Elite Upgrade : 750 food, 650 gold Tech Tree Barracks = Halb, Regional Units Range = Arb, HC, TR, PT Stable = Husbandry, Cavalier, SL, BE Siege Workshop = SO, HS, Regional Units Blacksmith = Full Monastery = Atonement, Sanctity, Faith, Illumination University = Heated Shot, Arrowslit, BBT, SE, Architecture, Shipwright, Siphon Dock = Heavy Demo, Carrack, Elite Cannon Castle = Full Eco = Farm techs, Stone Shaft Mining ---
**Author:** ![Gaturro7777](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/gaturro7777/32/61694_2.png) [@Gaturro7777](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/Gaturro7777)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2026, 1:26am UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/civilization-concepts/284070/630 "2026-09-21T01:26:21Z")
austrians defensive and monks civ civ bonus - vills have +10 hp - gets 1 wood for every 5 gold mined - castles and towers give +1/+1 armor bonus to units nearby team bonus gold and stone last 5% more UU- Reiter- heavy melee cavalry with special pistol attack HP 95, 115 DMG 9, 13 pistol DMG 12, 18 pistol range 3 pistol reload 45s armor 2/1, 2/2 UT1; counter reformation - min and max convertion time reduced 25% UT2: double barrel - reiters shoot a second proyectile that does half dmg full barracks and range no husbandry, no paladin, no hussar full blacksmith poor naval ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Paladin\_213](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/darth_paladin_213/32/211508_2.png) [@Darth\_Paladin\_213](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/Darth_Paladin_213)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2026, 12:22pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/civilization-concepts/284070/631 "2026-09-21T12:22:38Z")
**[PARTHIANS](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1yjTxm1lQCR13uvhbKxXZM5OirMSf0CoNTAryXGVSroQ/edit?usp=sharing)** (Chronicles) Cavalry and Trade civilization ![Flag_of_Parthian_Empire](https://forums.ageofempires.com/uploads/default/original/3X/1/f/1f8cca95d3e8964f2208f94d099c576610da56d7.jpeg) **Bonuses** - Can upgrade Heavy Cavalry Archers to Imperial Cavalry Archers. - Trade units can switch between generating wood/food/gold/stone (not necessarily the same amounts as gold). - Farmers drop off +10% food. - Conscription x2 effect. **Unique Units** - Cataphract (Chronicles): Stronger but more expensive replacement of the Lancer. Trained in the Fort. Cost: 80 food, 90 gold. Training time: 30/27 seconds. Upgrade cost: 1600 food, 1200 gold. Health: 145/170 Attack: 13/15 Reload time: 2.0 Armor: 2/3 / 3/4 Speed: 1.4 LoS: 5/6 - Imperial Cavalry Archer: improved Heavy Cavalry Archer. Changed Statistics: HP: 75 (+15) Attack: 8. Bonus: +5 vs Spearmen. (+1, +1) Training time: 25 (-5) Upgrade cost: 1200 food, 900 gold. **Unique Technologies** CLASSICAL AGE - Taxation (400f 400g): Trade units +3/3 armor and generate +20% resources. - Warhorses (400f 350g): Cataphracts and Scout Cavalry regenerate 20 hp/minute. IMPERIAL AGE - Parthian Shot (650w 550g): Cavalry Archers and Galleys +1 range, Cavalry Archers -75% attack delay. - Kontos (700f 650g): Cataphracts gain a charge attack that gives them +11 damage. The entire strike ignores armor. Charge time: 45 sec. **Team Bonus** - Trade units +2 LoS. **Missing techs** : Recurve Bowman, Paragon, Elite Guardsman, Battle Drills, Arson, Lancer, Siege Onager, Heavy Scorpion, Siege Ballista, Ring Archer Armor, Chain Mail Armor, Lighthouse, Arrowslits, Siege Engineers, Sappers, Fervor, Evocatio, Mystery Cults, Hemlock, Harupicy, Syncretism, Purification, Trireme, Shipwrights, Scoop Nets, Heavy Incendiary Ship, Onager Ship, Hypozomata. **See [here](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1yjTxm1lQCR13uvhbKxXZM5OirMSf0CoNTAryXGVSroQ/edit?usp=sharing) for expanded tech tree.** ---
**Author:** ![DynasticPlanet5](https://forums.ageofempires.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/d/e495f1/32.png) [@DynasticPlanet5](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/DynasticPlanet5)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2026, 6:27pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/civilization-concepts/284070/632 "2026-09-21T18:27:36Z")
Not too enthusiastic about Finns but… let’s try a few stipulations: Boyar becomes slavosphere regional. A Cav Archer and defensive civ - Mounted Xbows fire 25% faster - Start with a deep fish under each town center gatherable by villagers - Regionals train/build/research 33% faster - Skirmisher +2/3/4 vs non Skirmisher archers Team Bonus: Fish revealed within 30 range of any TC or Dock UU: Sissi - This Forest bowman can perform lumber camp building or tree cutting and benefits from villager techs henceforth UT1: Muinaislinna - This hill fort term makes it so players buildings always act like they are on higher elevation no matter the circumstances! UT2: Tavastian Resiliance - Varagian Guards, Longboats and Boyars take halved bonus damage! Regionals: Krepost, Longboat, Boyar, MXbow, Varagian Guard (does not get elite Boyar Longship or VG) Cranequines Missing Techs: Barracks: Elite Varagian Archery Range: Cav Archer (get Parthian for their MXbow alongside cranequin), Hand Cannon Stable: Elite Boyar, Knight Siege Worpkshop: Heavy Scorion, Onager, Siege Ram Dock: Demo Ship, Fast Fire, Elite Cannon Galleon, Elite Longboat Blacksmith: Plate Barding Monastery: Fervor, Herbal Medicine, Heresy Economy: Stone Shaft Mining Castle: Hoardings University: Treadmill Crane, Bombard Tower, Heated Shot, Arrow Slits, Architecture Not too enthusiastic but a civ caught in between both Novogorod and Varagian Sweden means a cross pollination of regions bleeding in through attempts at Vassalization ---
**Author:** ![TheTowerDefender](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/thetowerdefender/32/194640_2.png) [@TheTowerDefender](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/TheTowerDefender)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2026, 8:39pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/civilization-concepts/284070/633 "2026-09-21T20:39:55Z")
thoughts: > [@DynasticPlanet5](#): > > - Start with a deep fish under each town center gatherable by villagers that feels weird. fish on land? > [@DynasticPlanet5](#): > > - Regionals train/build/research 33% faster this would be the first official recognition of regional units? > [@DynasticPlanet5](#): > > - Skirmisher +2/3/4 vs non Skirmisher archers this is a huge amount of extra damage. even just +1 would already be a lot > [@DynasticPlanet5](#): > > UU: Sissi - This Forest bowman can perform lumber camp building or tree cutting and benefits from villager techs henceforth not sure I like the idea of military units being able to gather resources. considering this is a castle UU, it feels like a rarely used gimmick > [@DynasticPlanet5](#): > > UT1: Muinaislinna - This hill fort term makes it so players buildings always act like they are on higher elevation no matter the circumstances! seems very situational. “hill forts” is already the name of a tech, so kinda weird. But in the end it feels weaker than the existing bonuses/UTs that make TCs stronger. eg extra range just feels stronger > [@DynasticPlanet5](#): > > UT2: Tavastian Resiliance - Varagian Guards, Longboats and Boyars take halved bonus damage! how does a civ with weak monks counter Boyars (halbs and camels are out) ---
**Author:** ![DynasticPlanet5](https://forums.ageofempires.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/d/e495f1/32.png) [@DynasticPlanet5](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/DynasticPlanet5)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2026, 8:42pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/civilization-concepts/284070/634 "2026-09-21T20:42:34Z")
the fact that no matter the elevation your buildings take 25% less damage and deal 25% more damage is not to be underestimated. This translates essentially into an assured 33% durability boost regardless of how reckless you are. Oh no the enemy has the hill?! Lmao even my castle hits harder. And Boyars are still slower than knights and have low PA so archers tend to work too. Even with half they lack elite upgrade. Possibly I’d want the unit to have 1 pierce armor but they lack barding anyway ---
**Author:** ![TheTowerDefender](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/thetowerdefender/32/194640_2.png) [@TheTowerDefender](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/TheTowerDefender)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2026, 9:06pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/civilization-concepts/284070/635 "2026-09-21T21:06:33Z")
> [@DynasticPlanet5](#): > > the fact that no matter the elevation your buildings take 25% less damage and deal 25% more damage is not to be underestimated. This translates essentially into an assured 33% durability boost regardless of how reckless you are. Oh no the enemy has the hill?! Lmao even my castle hits harder. Persians have +100% durability for free. this civ needs to pay to get 33% > [@DynasticPlanet5](#): > > Even with half they lack elite upgrade. oh, i missed that part. fair enough, then it could work ---
**Author:** ![DynasticPlanet5](https://forums.ageofempires.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/d/e495f1/32.png) [@DynasticPlanet5](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/DynasticPlanet5)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2026, 9:17pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/civilization-concepts/284070/636 "2026-09-21T21:17:29Z")
Persians have that for TC and Dock… and Cotadels tech helps Castles. I see what you mean. I guess Treadmill and some more durability wouldn’t be a problem ---
**Author:** ![smiki5five](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/smiki5five/32/217730_2.png) [@smiki5five](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/smiki5five)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2026, 6:15pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/civilization-concepts/284070/637 "2026-10-01T18:15:07Z")
I was asked to add tech trees to my Saracen split document. I’ve done so (in the fourth card of the document), but I’m bad at math so I mostly followed vibes instead of calculating what would be over- or underpowered 🙃 > **[Saracen split](https://docs.google.com/document/d/14mj7BruacvQfrh83b7Mk9W98LrRBdQqYbgzqP0L3GjQ/edit)** > > AoE2: Middle East & North Africa, or More Than One Way to Skin a Camel Table of contents Table of contents Intro Shared stuff Regional units Regional buildings Campaign-only units Civ details Andalusians Bedouins / Arabs (OG Saracens) Berbers /... ---
**Author:** ![SMUM15236](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/smum15236/32/29763_2.png) [@SMUM15236](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/SMUM15236)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2026, 2:25pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/civilization-concepts/284070/638 "2026-10-23T14:25:15Z")
# Sogdians ## Cavalry Civilization **Team Bonus** SL +2 LOS. **Civ Bonus** - Can build pasture (assuming pasture is balanced). - Shepherd drop off +20%. - Construction of a market provides 50 gold. - Mounted units can garrison inside TC and Tower. - Elite SL upgrade is available in Castle Age and cost 50% less. **Unique Technologies** - Trade units gold cost is removed. (300 wood, 400 gold, 45 sec) - SL and UU deals thrust damage (Ghulam mechanics) (600 food, 600 gold, 45 sec) **Unique Unit** > **[Sogdian Cataphract](https://ageofempires.fandom.com/wiki/Sogdian_Cataphract)** > > The Sogdian Cataphract is an untrainable medium cavalry unit with very high pierce armor introduced in the Age of Empires II: Definitive Edition - Dynasties of India. It is available in the Scenario Editor. As a cavalry unit with decent hit points... This unit of Scenario editor. But this is Imperial Age stat. Castle Age stat is 20 less HP, 2 less attack, 1 less attack bonus vs archer, 1 less PA. Training time is 14 seconds for both version. **Missing Units/Techs/Buildings** Buildings - Farm Barracks - Regional Units, Gambeson Range - Arbalester, HC, Regional Units Stable - Bloodlines, Knight, Camel, BE Siege - Regional Units, SR, SO, BBC Blacksmith - Plate Mail Monastery - Redemption, Atonement, Heresy, Block Printing, Faith Dock - Heavy Demo, FFS, Carrack, Cannon Galleon, Dromon, Lou Chuan Uni - Architecture, Keep, BBT, Arrowslit, Heated Shot, Carvel Hull, Siphon Castle - Hoarding Eco - Final wood and pasture techs ---
**Author:** ![Mahazona](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/mahazona/32/213405_2.png) [@Mahazona](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/Mahazona)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2026, 2:53pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/civilization-concepts/284070/639 "2026-10-23T14:53:57Z")
> [@SMUM15236](#): > > - Mounted units can garrison inside TC and Tower. TC is fine but tower will look awkward visually.I have the same visual complain about SL line attacking air. ---
**Author:** ![DynasticPlanet5](https://forums.ageofempires.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/d/e495f1/32.png) [@DynasticPlanet5](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/DynasticPlanet5)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2026, 3:21pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/civilization-concepts/284070/640 "2026-10-23T15:21:58Z")
I get this civ is supposed to focus on their lancer units but… it needs something else. Sogdia is quite the crossroad location. A trade midway for the Orient, Middle East and India. Yet it doesn’t even have CAMELS!? This doesn’t read like a Sogdian civ, it reads like a krakenmeister SL civ that doesn’t have much else to do except hope the enemy doesn’t have anyi-cavalry that you lack the hitpoints to stand up to At the very least maybe a Caravanserai and let it be an influx of gold when built maybe 150 because stone is expensive! I’m not saying it needs rockets or elephants as the focal point but it feels a bit too one note for a civ that was like super involved in most of the big regions in this perfect crossroad It’s also oddly low defenses for the host nation of Samarkand Also the team bonus is even worse than the Gujara one. Maybe steppe lancers and markets? ---
**Author:** ![Mahazona](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/mahazona/32/213405_2.png) [@Mahazona](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/Mahazona)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2026, 3:34pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/civilization-concepts/284070/641 "2026-10-23T15:34:15Z")
> [@DynasticPlanet5](#): > > Sogdia is quite the crossroad location. A trade midway for the Orient, Middle East and India. Yet it doesn’t even have CAMELS!? Because its not your concept?You really need to stop acting like a bully when people post civi ideas.Just because you think x civi should be designed this way it dosent autimatically mean the other person needs to do the same. ---
**Author:** ![DynasticPlanet5](https://forums.ageofempires.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/d/e495f1/32.png) [@DynasticPlanet5](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/DynasticPlanet5)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2026, 3:39pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/civilization-concepts/284070/642 "2026-10-23T15:39:16Z")
noticing awkward designs doesn’t a bully make and you know it. It’s like saying that “This Pict civ can’t tech to Imperial because they died out too soon” would you just praise them as brilliant if I said that was a bad design? In any case I went over the real issue is that if Lancers don’t work then this civ just folds because it can’t even fall back on anything except maybe Skirmishers. Sounds great win with 1v1 survival rate vs non bloodline ESL perfectly no matter how much strikethrough they have. I don’t understand your problem with constructive criticism when you yourself had one! If it was an Indian subcontinent civ or an Italian civ that was misrepresented you would be up in arms I know as well so careful with the claims there ---
**Author:** ![Mahazona](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/mahazona/32/213405_2.png) [@Mahazona](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/Mahazona)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2026, 4:05pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/civilization-concepts/284070/643 "2026-10-23T16:05:01Z")
> [@DynasticPlanet5](#): > > If it was an Indian subcontinent civ or an Italian civ that was misrepresented you would be up in arms I know as well so careful with the claims there Please do elaborate on this? > [@DynasticPlanet5](#): > > noticing awkward designs doesn’t a bully make and you know it. > [@DynasticPlanet5](#): > > Sogdia is quite the crossroad location. A trade midway for the Orient, Middle East and India. Yet it doesn’t even have CAMELS!? Your reasoning for not having camels is not awkward design its how you see this civi should work.There is a clear difference. > [@DynasticPlanet5](#): > > I don’t understand your problem with constructive criticism when you yourself had one! I just stated the obvious not bring in historical context to push my own civi idea. ---
**Author:** ![DynasticPlanet5](https://forums.ageofempires.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/d/e495f1/32.png) [@DynasticPlanet5](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/DynasticPlanet5)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2026, 4:06pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/civilization-concepts/284070/644 "2026-10-23T16:06:48Z")
I wouldn’t even focus on lancers but I never said don’t have a lancer focus, the subtext was “this civ needs something else to do so it doesn’t die to anything that can even soft counter steppe lancers because it’s so pigeonholed ---
**Author:** ![SMUM15236](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/smum15236/32/29763_2.png) [@SMUM15236](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/SMUM15236)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2026, 4:49pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/civilization-concepts/284070/645 "2026-10-23T16:49:59Z")
> [@DynasticPlanet5](#): > > Sogdia is quite the crossroad location. A trade midway for the Orient, Middle East and India. Yet it doesn’t even have CAMELS!? Did they use Camel on battle? I think I’m hesitant to give more civs Camel as there are already too many. > [@DynasticPlanet5](#): > > At the very least maybe a Caravanserai I completely missed that, Yes, sure. > [@DynasticPlanet5](#): > > This doesn’t read like a Sogdian civ, it reads like a krakenmeister SL civ that doesn’t have much else to do except hope the enemy doesn’t have anyi-cavalry that you lack the hitpoints to stand up to Kinda hurts my feeling. 11 I appreciate your on point criticism. > [@DynasticPlanet5](#): > > It’s also oddly low defenses for the host nation of Samarkand Maybe they can get Keep and Arrowslit? I don’t want Hoardings though as their UU has high PA. So in a treb vs treb battle, they might dive in enemy castle and kill the enemy trebuchets. > [@DynasticPlanet5](#): > > Also the team bonus is even worse than the Gujara one. Would SL training faster be better? > [@Mahazona](#): > > Because its not your concept?You really need to stop acting like a bully when people post civi ideas.Just because you think x civi should be designed this way it dosent autimatically mean the other person needs to do the same. Doesn’t feel like that way. [Previous page](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/civilization-concepts/284070.md?page=31) [Next page](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/civilization-concepts/284070.md?page=33)