Civilization Craft: Siamese


  • Start with two houses, with no resource loss in exchange
  • Reduced team bonus attack vs infantry for elephant units
  • Infantry, Knights, and Battle Elephants gain +5 HP instead of +5%, and only for Blacksmith techs
  • Removed Champion
  • Removed Bloodlines
  • Removed Parthian Tactics
  • Removed Dry Dock and Shipwright
  • Removed Heavy Demo Ship and Elite Cannon Galleon
  • Slightly increased Galley line speed per age to 7%
  • Removed Keep
  • Slightly elaborated on the gimmick for the unique unit

@AllergicTable49, I made many balance changes. Let me know what you think.

+5 HP x 5 possible techs = 25 HP buff ?

25 is quite low, I’d aim for something like 35, or rather just let them have Bloodlines?

Regarding Infantry, same thing, +25 HP while lacking the 10 HP boost of the Champion, makes them worse than a generic Champion considering they lack the armor.

Another thought, since THS and Halbs have the same HP and since you increase both equally, the more HP the Halb have the less its armor infriority is relevant. What I’m saying is, there will be no reason to make a THS if the Halb has the same high amount of HP, unlike the current situation where the HP is low which gives the different armor types bigger relevancy.

That is correct. I did the math, limited my skills in that area may be.

I figured a 5 HP increase would be significant enough, even if it seems small. Maybe not. If I added Stable techs to it, would it make any difference?

I guess I can give them back Champions, but I was concerned they’d be too similar to the Georgians.

But Halbs don’t have a high base attack, which I feel would make them perform worse overall. However, I do see your point.

@AllergicTable49, I just realized something. Since there are only two Stable techs available, the only way to achieve +35 HP on cavalry would be to give them the last armor upgrade. Would that be too broken?

Last Armor + Tons of HP? Wouldn’t it be just Franks?
I’m all for full emphasis on this nerrative of high HP no armor, which makes them far from a Franks Paladin, and actually the strongest non-FU Paladin.

That’s true, but we usually make Infantry units to overwhelm the enemy with a mass bulk of army regardless of the damage, followed by siege of any sort. I’d find a solution for this one, the more HP you add the less relevant the armor type becomes which makes Halbs much more attractive than THS.

Again, I do love the idea of a morbidly obese Infantries, it’s far from being Vikings, especially when you take away the last armor tech. Who thought it could be unique, but it is! :slight_smile:

Oh…good point.

Me too. It’s a cool idea.

I agree, but how? There’s only so much I can tweak.

Now I’m picturing 500-pound guys wearing chain mail that’s 5 sizes too small charging at an army with their swords. And I’m going to have that picture as I go to sleep, so that’s pretty hilarious. Thank you.

It just goes to show that even minor alterations to seemingly overlapping bonuses with other civs will have a big impact. That’s why I don’t let it bother me if bonuses overlap with other bonuses somewhat, because there is a way to differentiate them.

It’s a tough one!
If we just give them access to Pikes it would solve it, however, would end up being too similar to Vikings, and would kill their potential of utilizing a proper Infantry composition as part of their win condition, Halb is needed usually for the Infantry units to deal effectively with those Hussar civs.

I’m not sure :\


Yeah sometimes there is a way.
However sometimes it’s really hard to find a way to pull it off uniquely.