# Collection for hypothetical "Western Roman" Civs **URL:** \ **Category:** II - Discussion\ **Created:** [February 1, 2023, 2:26pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/collection-for-hypothetical-western-roman-civs/223707 "2023-02-01T14:26:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![casusincorrabil](https://forums.ageofempires.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@casusincorrabil](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/casusincorrabil)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2023, 2:26pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/collection-for-hypothetical-western-roman-civs/223707/1 "2023-02-01T14:26:40Z")
As “Return to Rome” comes closer and there are the Rumors it will contain a Western Roman Civilisation I think it would be funny if we share our Ideas how we think this civ could be designed. # Rome Naval and Infantry Civilisation ## Civ Bonusses - Galley line Gold cost is replaced with Wood - Unique Building “Bakery” that can enhance Food production - Militia units can be converted to Villagers (cost 25 F and takes 30 s) - Skirmishers deal +50 % Bonus damage ind Castle age, +100 % Bonus damage in Imperial Age - All Siege Units cost -30 G, -30 W - Gain a trickle of 5 G / Minute ## TB - Castles provide +2 maximum Population space ## UU - Legion: All-purpose well armored Infantry unit. Available from Feudal in the Barracks. Can tank some arrow damage, soft-counters Cavalry. Countered by the militia line. Comparably high Gold ratio (around 50 %). Bonus damage against Unique Units. ## UTs - Cultural Adaption: Allows to train the Castle Unique Unit of a currently enemy Faction - Pax Romana: Convertable Units and Buildings in Range will automatically converted whan Building a Castle ## Tech Tree - Blacksmith: All melee Attack upgrades, only Fletching for Archers, Full Infantry Armor, no Plate Barding, Full Archer Armor - Barracks: All techs - Archery range: Archer line up to Xbow, Elite Skirm, Thumb Ring, no Cav Archers, no Ele Archers, no HC - Stable: No Bloodlines, Husbanfry, no Hussars, no Cavalier, no Elite SL, no Eles - Siege Workshop: Everything but Siege Ram, Siege Onager and BBC - Castle: Everything - Monastery: Everything except Heresy - Dock: Missing everything in Imperial Age except for Dry Dock - University: Everything but Bombard Tower - Market: Everything - Economy Techs: All but Crop Rotation ## Bakery The Bakery is a Unique Building of the Romans. Whilst you have food in your Stockpile, it automatically converts accordingly high numbers of Gold into even more Food at a ratio of 1:7. The effect is capped at .amountofbakeries. \* 100 F. The Rate is 1 G / Minute =\> 7 F / Minute for each 100 F in your Stockpile. Costs the same as a House and has comparable stats. ---
**Author:** ![SMUM15236](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/smum15236/32/29763_2.png) [@SMUM15236](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/SMUM15236)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2023, 4:44pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/collection-for-hypothetical-western-roman-civs/223707/2 "2023-02-01T16:44:59Z")
Infantry and Siege civ ## Team Bonus Scorpion -1 minimum range ## Civ Bonus - Barracks and Siege Workshop cost -75 wood. - Squires and Siege Engineering are free. - Gets 25 food for building an eco building (Including Market and Dock). ## Unique Technologies - Scorpion +5 attack vs cavalry. (300f/250g, 40 sec) - Siege Workshop units regenerate 10 HP/min. (750f/500g, 50 sec) ## Unique Units - Legion - Anti-siege Infantry (As we don’t have any other than Eagles which is not an UU) Cost : 60f/30g HP : 65, 75 Attack : 7, 8 Attack Bonus : vs siege +6, +8, vs ram +2 ROF : 2.0 Armor : 0/3, 1/4 Speed : 1.2 LOS : 5 Upgrade cost : 850f/650g, 45 sec - Dromon - Warship with high range Cost : 80w/40g HP : 125, 150 Attack : 7, 8 Attack Bonus : vs ship/fishing ship +9, +11, vs building +7, +8, vs ram +2 Range : 7, 8 ROF : 3.0 Armor : 0/6, 0/8 Speed : 1.43 LOS : 9, 10 Upgrade cost : 750f/475g, 60 sec ## Technology Tree **Barracks** ![Rax](https://forums.ageofempires.com/uploads/default/original/3X/e/9/e9f5ee16adb218ca63b3b56aa1abc0d9d4920e55.jpeg) **Archery Range** ![Range](https://forums.ageofempires.com/uploads/default/original/3X/b/c/bcc67339f0c35681f2cb17d6f0a01f11bc037dbb.jpeg) **Stable** ![Stable](https://forums.ageofempires.com/uploads/default/original/3X/5/5/556950c0cfa3c661b4c78e64fae1a8d3d8afc7e0.jpeg) **Siege Workshop** ![SW](https://forums.ageofempires.com/uploads/default/original/3X/a/8/a8a4545a4460a84c1433e658518c638296a11233.jpeg) **Blacksmith** ![BS](https://forums.ageofempires.com/uploads/default/original/3X/0/b/0b5ed2f2a2043ca476ec3c501fef85ba5fcb3135.jpeg) **University** ![Uni](https://forums.ageofempires.com/uploads/default/original/3X/b/d/bd025a531f4d50068c81013cb221f514e5b41b69.jpeg) **Monastery** ![Monk](https://forums.ageofempires.com/uploads/default/original/3X/4/d/4d1c749194b843a23cb0a22d6ce78318ff8d87a4.jpeg) **Dock** ![Dock](https://forums.ageofempires.com/uploads/default/original/3X/b/2/b2cef9f6ff36e9f1dd4da5f782e0f6d716e6b013.jpeg) **Eco** ![Eco](https://forums.ageofempires.com/uploads/default/original/3X/1/b/1b11155cea3d91e700d393dba0a9b59b9af88bdf.jpeg) **Castle** ![Castle](https://forums.ageofempires.com/uploads/default/original/3X/8/6/86dd00e847d9c6ba87a27842ef1b7161b87b2b2b.jpeg) **Others** ![Others](https://forums.ageofempires.com/uploads/default/original/3X/4/b/4b5fc25a0d774e8d9731c0add182369f0a478b18.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![casusincorrabil](https://forums.ageofempires.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@casusincorrabil](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/casusincorrabil)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2023, 12:39am UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/collection-for-hypothetical-western-roman-civs/223707/3 "2023-02-02T00:39:34Z")
> [@SMUM15236](#): > > Scorpion -1 minimum range Sounds kinda bad. Scorpions are really bad in TG settings. > [@SMUM15236](#): > > - Barracks and Siege Workshop cost -75 wood. > - Squires and Siege Engineering are free. > - Gets 100 gold for building a TC starting from Castle Age. This looks also quite weak to me. Most bonusses come in quite late and are very special. Gold for Placing TCs is… meh. Doesn’t help for Booming. > [@SMUM15236](#): > > Scorpion +5 attack vs cavalry. (300f/250g, 40 sec) Very specific bonus and expensive for a unit that doesn’t see much use. Ofc it reduces a major weakness of that unit, but for quite high cost. > [@SMUM15236](#): > > Siege Workshop units regenerate 10 HP/min. (750f/500g, 50 sec) Also rarely a facor. Siege unist usually get either annihilated, get barely away with their lives (and you want to bring them back to full health asap) or aren’t even touched at all. > [@SMUM15236](#): > > Armor : 0/3, 1/4 With that armor it will be more of an anti-archer Unit tbh. For anti siege it’s usually enough just to have high speed and not being a cavalry unit. For me it looks like the whole civ is basically set up to be played only Legion + Spearmen. Scorpions added if the opponent goes heavily into militia to counter these. (and none of the UTs is really necessary) But the civ is very slow (except for the drush potential) so I don’t even see how you get to such a ressource demanding castle age comp on maps where you don’t already start with walls. I would prefer if the civ also has some more flexible bonusses and isn’t completely relying on a Castle Infatnry UU. ---
**Author:** ![SMUM15236](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/smum15236/32/29763_2.png) [@SMUM15236](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/SMUM15236)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2023, 8:54am UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/collection-for-hypothetical-western-roman-civs/223707/4 "2023-02-03T08:54:46Z")
> [@casusincorrabil](#): > > For me it looks like the whole civ is basically set up to be played only Legion + Spearmen. Scorpions added if the opponent goes heavily into militia to counter these. I didn’t even reveal their tech tree. How can you draw conclusion? > [@casusincorrabil](#): > > This looks also quite weak to me. Most bonusses come in quite late and are very special. Gold for Placing TCs is… meh. Doesn’t help for Booming. Yeah, I know this civ looks weak. They need one more bonus that starts in Feudal Age. Or else their mid game will be terrible. An eco mostly food bonus will be great. But nothing came in my mind that time. Changed the eco bonus now. > [@casusincorrabil](#): > > With that armor it will be more of an anti-archer Unit tbh. Without that armor they can’t dive into Castle to kill Trebs. I also wanted to be a bit anti-archer as I’m planning not to give them good horse nor good skirms. BTW after revisiting the unit, I think I made their HP too high. Reduced a bit. ---
**Author:** ![casusincorrabil](https://forums.ageofempires.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@casusincorrabil](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/casusincorrabil)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2023, 5:04am UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/collection-for-hypothetical-western-roman-civs/223707/5 "2023-02-04T05:04:56Z")
> [@SMUM15236](#): > > I didn’t even reveal their tech tree. You didn’t **reveal**??? You know, it’s not strategically useful to hide a tech tree, cause the only thing you can possibly “hide” is missings. Meaning you can only cover up half of the critiquepoints and those are thise of “THAT IS OP”. But I didn’t claimed anything would be OP, right the opposite actually. Your civ just didn’t had any bonus that was useful for the standard archer, knight, or CA plays. So the only plausible explanation is that it’s designed around the UU and spear line (currently the only common Infantry unit that’s viable in the midgame). I saw you changed the civ bonus: > [@SMUM15236](#): > > Gets 25 food for building an eco building (Including Market and Dock). I don’t know where this comes from, but ok. certainly a small eco bonus. Not the strongest, but at least something. Together with the cheaper barracks useful in basically all rush openers. > [@SMUM15236](#): > > Without that armor they can’t dive into Castle to kill Trebs Castles have way higher pierce damage than regular ranged units. Ofc Armor helps, but it’s usually just having enough HP to survive one castle volley and enough speed so it’'s hard tor the opponent to bodyblock you. Not being a cavalry is also advantageous cause in most cases the trebs are protected by some halbs. And halbs do very little to other infantry. > [@SMUM15236](#): > > I also wanted to be a bit anti-archer Yeah I’m not a fan of anti-archer infantry TBH. I know there are already some in the game, but it was already enough before the addition of the Ghulam imo. In my design the anti-archer role is taken by cheaper siege. Ofc you can argue that your Siege Workshop discount serves the same purpose. But I don’t think it’s comparable to a direct and meaningful siege bonus. An idea for a new foundation for a roman civ design could be the bonus of: **Men-at-Arms, Long Sordsman and Two-Handed Swordsman are available one age earlier** (This idea comes from the Thread that requests for a Champion buff) Ofc Men-ar-Arms in Dark age sounds a bit sus at first. But it could be a slightly worse version of the MAA like we have with the automatically upgraded scout lines. ---
**Author:** ![SMUM15236](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/smum15236/32/29763_2.png) [@SMUM15236](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/SMUM15236)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2023, 12:47pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/collection-for-hypothetical-western-roman-civs/223707/6 "2023-02-04T12:47:21Z")
> [@casusincorrabil](#): > > You didn’t **reveal**??? “Revealed” now. 11 Actually I was busy and a bit hesitant on their tech tree. Slavs and Celts (and Sicilians) already have same Rax+SW and repeating them will be boring. Also I don’t know how strong free siege engineering could be. So I didn’t give them SO. [Abbreviation of Siege Engineering is censored btw] > [@casusincorrabil](#): > > Meaning you can only cover up half of the critiquepoints and those are thise of “THAT IS OP”. > > But I didn’t claimed anything would be OP, right the opposite actually. ??? Where did anyone of us said it will be OP? Even I admitted my civ is weak and I changed it a bit for that reason. > [@casusincorrabil](#): > > Your civ just didn’t had any bonus that was useful for the standard archer, knight, or CA plays. Nice observation. Indeed they don’t. My inspiration was Celts after all. But was too weak initially. Now they are slightly stronger than my first design. I think their Drush potential is even stronger than Celts. Feudal is weaker but Castle age is almost on par I’d say as they have better xbow and monk. Also direct free food helps to make knight than saving wood to make farm (at least in low-mid elo). Imperial is weaker again as eco bonus is gone but Legion is more pop efficient that Woad Raider. > [@casusincorrabil](#): > > Yeah I’m not a fan of anti-archer infantry TBH. I know there are already some in the game, but it was already enough before the addition of the Ghulam imo. Fair enough. Unlike Huskarl and Ghulam, this one doesn’t have bonus against archer. So consider them as Eagle that costs a lot of food and also is locked behind a castle. ---
**Author:** ![azwadkm22](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/azwadkm22/32/109445_2.png) [@azwadkm22](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/azwadkm22)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2023, 3:36pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/collection-for-hypothetical-western-roman-civs/223707/8 "2023-02-04T15:36:09Z")
**Romans** Infantry and Siege Civilization **Civilization Bonus** - Start with 50 of Each Resource [Inspired by their Early Time Period] - Barracks cost -50 Wood [Inspired from the post above] - Scorpions have +20% HP. [Inspired by their usage of Ballista] - Heavy Scorpion Upgrade available in Castle Age for half the cost. [Inspired by their use of Ballista] **Team Bonus** - Scorpions deal extra damage to buildings. **Unique Units** - Centurion: Castle UU, that gains extra stats automatically in Imperial Age instead of Elite Upgrade - Stats: Attack: 9, HP: 120, Armor: 2/1 - Imperial Stats: Attack: 12, HP: 150, Armor: 2/2 - Legionary: Unique Upgrade from Long Swordsman in Imperial Age - Stats: Attack: 12, HP: 75, Armor: 1/1 - Upgrade Cost: 800 Food, 500 Gold - Dromon: I just know it’s coming but not sure what stats to give it. **Unique Techs** - Testudo: Infantry and Skirmishers gain +1/+1P armor - Pax Romana: All units (military and economic) production speed increased by 15% Tech Tree Missing: Barracks: Supplies, Eagle Line Archery Range: Arbalest, Hand Cannoneer, Elephant Archer, Parthian Tactics Stable: Paladin, Camel Rider, Elephant, Steppe Lancer Siege Workshop: Bombard Cannon, Siege Ram, Siege Onager Blacksmith: Ring Archer Armor Dock: None University: Bombard Cannon Monastery: None Eco Techs: Two man Saw, Crop Rotation ---
**Author:** ![SMUM15236](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/smum15236/32/29763_2.png) [@SMUM15236](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/SMUM15236)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2023, 3:42pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/collection-for-hypothetical-western-roman-civs/223707/9 "2023-02-04T15:42:43Z")
> [@azwadkm22](#): > > Legionary: Unique Upgrade from Long Swordsman in Imperial Age > > - Stats: Attack: 12, HP: 75, Armor: 1/1 > - Upgrade Cost: 800 Food, 500 Gold Really liked this. Wishing this becomes a thing for everyone. But at a slightly less powerful unit. 70 HP, maybe 11 attack. > [@azwadkm22](#): > > Skirmishers gain +1/+1P armor Seems a bit random. > [@azwadkm22](#): > > - Pax Romana: All units (military and economic) production speed increased by 15% > > Tech Tree Missing: Sounds too strong on paper. > [@azwadkm22](#): > > Barracks: Supplies Why? This totally ruined the civ. Overall looks even weaker than mine. They don’t have any eco after early game. Even late game eco is below average as they lack both farm and wood upgrades. I think extra HP of scorpions should be traded with an eco bonus. ---
**Author:** ![azwadkm22](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/azwadkm22/32/109445_2.png) [@azwadkm22](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/azwadkm22)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2023, 3:53pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/collection-for-hypothetical-western-roman-civs/223707/10 "2023-02-04T15:53:15Z")
> [@SMUM15236](#): > > Why? This totally ruined the civ. They are considered a power unit for this civ design and not as just trash killers, so decided to keep the High Cost of the power Unit. Could be tweaked for balance. > [@SMUM15236](#): > > Sounds too strong on paper. Yeah, even though it does sound strong, it’s basically another conscription. But it will have a very high cost to compensate the strong bonus. > [@SMUM15236](#): > > Seems a bit random. TBH this bonus was inspired by the Romae ad Bellum mod, where it gives this effect to skirms too. So decided to keep it that way. > [@SMUM15236](#): > > Even late game eco is below average as they lack both farm and wood upgrades. This is kinda by design, as historically they didn’t exist very long into the Later age. They reach their prime in early Imperial Age with basically free Elite Upgrade for Centurion and One Tech Away powerful Legionaries. But then falls off, when enemies have better economy than them. > [@SMUM15236](#): > > I think extra HP of scorpions should be traded with an eco bonus. I was thinking of giving them another upgrade for Scorpions which would turn them into Ballistas, with better HP and Armor. But decided against it as the Civ already has three UUs 11 ---
**Author:** ![casusincorrabil](https://forums.ageofempires.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@casusincorrabil](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/casusincorrabil)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2023, 6:15pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/collection-for-hypothetical-western-roman-civs/223707/11 "2023-02-04T18:15:51Z")
> [@azwadkm22](#): > > Scorpions have +20% HP. [Inspired by their usage of Ballista] That’s kinda underwhealming. Imo to have an Impact it needs to be high enough Scorps can’t be one-shot by the onager line counterparts anymore. > [@azwadkm22](#): > > Heavy Scorpion Upgrade available in Castle Age for half the cost. [Inspired by their use of Ballista] I considered that aswell, but stepped away from it as it has the potential to be kinda broken. How I interprete your civ design I also think the civ actually would need better scorps in Imp against other infantry civs. Cause it lacks the typical lategame Infantry counters. > [@azwadkm22](#): > > Scorpions deal extra damage to buildings. Wouldn’t cut the deal for Scorps in TGs… > [@azwadkm22](#): > > Centurion: Castle UU, that gains extra stats automatically in Imperial Age instead of Elite Upgrade What’s the advantage over Knights? just saving 300 F 300 G in Imp isn’t that big of a deal. They even have 1 less pierce armor than Knights or Paladins. And as it still is mostly an Infantry civ they would actually need help against either Ranged Infantry counters and/or other Infantry. > [@azwadkm22](#): > > Testudo: Infantry and Skirmishers gain +1/+1P armor Their Skirms still lack the last Armor. would be the first time we have a UT affecting a unit that’s then still strictly worse than the FU generic one. Ofc extra armor for the Infantry is nice. Still not enough to make the militia line viable in castle age, especially when considering the investment to go for that upgrade. > [@azwadkm22](#): > > Pax Romana: All units (military and economic) production speed increased by 15% This is undewhealming for me. At this stage faster production doesn’t make that much of a difference anymore. And when you can afford that tech it won’t make a difference anyways. > [@azwadkm22](#): > > Supplies Wouldn’t miss that actually… I see you want to make their Infantry more quality\>quantity, but the little +1/+1 armor from a UT and 5 more HP in imp in exchange for 1 atk isn’t really making their Infnatry like “oppressive”. Romans also were famous for their very well organized military campaigns so I don’t see why this tech referring to that should actually be missing for them. If I reflect that right your design is basically all about “early agression” and trying to snowball that in the continueation of the game. If you want them to make more use of the scorps in the midgame you probably need to give stronger bonusses that apply directly (heavy scorpion is super expensive, ofc it’s also a very strong upgrade for castle age measures. ---
**Author:** ![Jergosurb](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/jergosurb/32/65549_2.png) [@Jergosurb](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/Jergosurb)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2023, 6:21pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/collection-for-hypothetical-western-roman-civs/223707/12 "2023-02-04T18:21:02Z")
> [@casusincorrabil](#): > > As “Return to Rome” comes closer and there are the Rumors it will contain a Western Roman Civilisation Oh, my sweet summer child… I say no more 11 ---
**Author:** ![casusincorrabil](https://forums.ageofempires.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@casusincorrabil](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/casusincorrabil)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2023, 6:28pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/collection-for-hypothetical-western-roman-civs/223707/13 "2023-02-04T18:28:51Z")
> [@Jergosurb](#): > > I say no more 11 You haven’t actually said anything 11 Cause you didn’t got the vibe of the thread 11 ---
**Author:** ![Jergosurb](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/jergosurb/32/65549_2.png) [@Jergosurb](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/Jergosurb)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2023, 6:45pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/collection-for-hypothetical-western-roman-civs/223707/14 "2023-02-04T18:45:29Z")
What I mean is: we always are super hype waiting for things only announced, then what we really get is… So I don’t expect new civilization from antiquity along with these from medieval era, I think that will not happen. ---
**Author:** ![casusincorrabil](https://forums.ageofempires.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@casusincorrabil](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/casusincorrabil)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2023, 6:46pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/collection-for-hypothetical-western-roman-civs/223707/15 "2023-02-04T18:46:59Z")
> [@Jergosurb](#): > > will not happen. Now you got the vibe 😉 ---
**Author:** ![TungstenBoar](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/tungstenboar/32/173768_2.png) [@TungstenBoar](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/TungstenBoar)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2023, 8:48pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/collection-for-hypothetical-western-roman-civs/223707/16 "2023-02-04T20:48:22Z")
I thought theur stats were bad but if look at it again their legionaries actually may be a bit too strong, they have 150 hp ---
**Author:** ![TungstenBoar](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/tungstenboar/32/173768_2.png) [@TungstenBoar](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/TungstenBoar)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2023, 8:51pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/collection-for-hypothetical-western-roman-civs/223707/17 "2023-02-04T20:51:12Z")
We have some evidence pointing toward a Roman civ. I hope we dont get one but we have a bunch of pictures of them ---
**Author:** ![Jergosurb](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/jergosurb/32/65549_2.png) [@Jergosurb](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/Jergosurb)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2023, 10:18pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/collection-for-hypothetical-western-roman-civs/223707/18 "2023-02-04T22:18:32Z")
Them, or maybe it’s from mod “Rom at War”? There are two different things, I think. ---
**Author:** ![TungstenBoar](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/tungstenboar/32/173768_2.png) [@TungstenBoar](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/TungstenBoar)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2023, 12:06am UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/collection-for-hypothetical-western-roman-civs/223707/19 "2023-02-05T00:06:33Z")
No its not. Its other stuff ---
**Author:** ![SMUM15236](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/smum15236/32/29763_2.png) [@SMUM15236](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/SMUM15236)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2023, 12:48pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/collection-for-hypothetical-western-roman-civs/223707/20 "2023-02-05T12:48:13Z")
> [@casusincorrabil](#): > > > [@SMUM15236](#): > > > > Scorpion -1 minimum range > > Sounds kinda bad. Scorpions are really bad in TG settings. With the UT, my idea was making them a good alternative to archer. An almost multi purpose unit when it is massed. Pair them with UU to counter mango and BBC. > [@azwadkm22](#): > > I was thinking of giving them another upgrade for Scorpions which would turn them into Ballistas, with better HP and Armor. What about Heavy scrops for free? I don’t think that will be OP. ---
**Author:** ![azwadkm22](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/azwadkm22/32/109445_2.png) [@azwadkm22](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/azwadkm22)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2023, 12:50pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/collection-for-hypothetical-western-roman-civs/223707/21 "2023-02-05T12:50:09Z")
> [@SMUM15236](#): > > What about Heavy scrops for free? I don’t think that will be OP. In my design they get Heavy Scorps in Castle Age for half the cost. [Next page](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/collection-for-hypothetical-western-roman-civs/223707.md?page=2)