Combat realism in AoE IV

@TimidestSage417 I like the idea of towers. I believe there is an Age of Mythology mod that does this in fact. Would be awesome to see it implemented.

However, I’m not a huge fan of having yet more super powerful artillery. AOE has always had artillery engines powerful enough to take out huge swaths of infantry as it is, I don’t think they need to have ultra range on top of that. Unless this is going in the WW1 direction I suppose…

@Eininfar Maybe they can remove some artillery and make them more different.They are all kinda the same except mortars.

Where are the airplane and tanks? And machinegun turrets?

I definitely wish to have more effective war tactics to be used. In the previous versions of AOE’s they didn’t have an effective war tactics/modes. War tactics have been an important part of wars in history of any place per sake and must be included for a better combat realism. Here are some of them-

  1. Guerilla Tactic- It’s essentially hide and shoot. Possible only with the ranged units. Would also have a map dependence like maps with trees or rocks where it can be applied.
  2. Smoking Tactic- For running in or running away. If there is a feature of accuracy in the game, smoke reduces it for all teams in combat, else, it can just be used for setting up or running away from the combat, as combat stops when smoke is put which remains for sometime.
  3. Circular Formations- An army tries encircles another army. It was a very common tactic which was used in almost all the civilizations round the world. It must be effective only with melee units with ranged attack resists coupled with ranged units at the back.
  4. Patrolling mode- Mode available especially to the cavalry where the units cannot be commanded except to come back to normal attack mode. It scouts the map through some algorithmic path and has more speed and less attack damage.
  5. Battlefield setting up- It’s a mode where the military especially the ranged units take time to set up to a position (during that time, they cannot fire). Eventually, they have higher attack damage and lower mobility.

Through some case studies, more can be found out and studied which tactic counters which one and so on.

@Eininfar said:
@TimidestSage417 I like the idea of towers. I believe there is an Age of Mythology mod that does this in fact. Would be awesome to see it implemented.

However, I’m not a huge fan of having yet more super powerful artillery. AOE has always had artillery engines powerful enough to take out huge swaths of infantry as it is, I don’t think they need to have ultra range on top of that. Unless this is going in the WW1 direction I suppose…

But this is the way, it has been in the wars. But if you wanna control the effect of artillery, make it more costly and takes more time to train. This, I believe is more realistic than reducing the effect of artillery.

Good points, Andy. Not trying to reinvent the wheel, etc.

@Teutonic_knight said:

  1. Instead of creating single units from a building, make a minimum of 5 or 10 units (make cheaper obviously).

Yeah, I really loved that concept in RoN. Or another way of thinking could be… an upgrade that allows 3-5 units produced at one time, but the resources required to produce the unit would increase to match the number produced.

E.g. An archer costs 35 wood. Upgrading it via a building (like the government center in AoE 1 or uni in Aoe 2) to get 3 archers at one time, you need 35x3 = 105 wood to produce them at any one time in a single archery range.

So despite not changing resources cost, speed of military troop production increases as long as your resource production is good enough to produce them efficiently. This can be rewarding for those who employ good efficiency for their resource production, but it’s hell to those who don’t.

@Teutonic_knight said:
2. Give units a morale parameter. Increases with victories and decreases after a rout

I actually like the morale system. I don’t like the rout idea though… But I would like to see a morale system implemented, like… for instance, if one soldier got a certain amount of kills, they increase their morale and become “veterans”, meaning they get more hitpoints and hence become tougher to kill.

Empires Dawn of the Modern World had this mechanic too, and made things really interesting with the Korean and German civilizations.

@Teutonic_knight said:
3. Units get extra combat bonuses when in formation (e.g. more armor, can’t be converted), but if overwhelmed their morale drops, they can break and become weaker. Cavalry get bonuses against exposed infantry.

That’s an interesting idea, especially with Cavalry getting bonuses against exposed infantry. I like it; it expands the simple system adopted in AoE 2 where a hilly terrain grants bonuses etc…

@Teutonic_knight said:
4. You can chose to move units quickly by keeping them in a loose grouping, but this makes them weaker and they might run if attacked in force

Like I said earlier, I’m not a fan of the rout idea, but the cost of using a loose formation and hence getting exposed by cavalry (due to the latter’s bonuses - your 3rd idea) would make it interesting.

Some other ideas I could think of, is a cavalry charge which can cause trample damage to nearby enemy units, but reduced bonus against phalanx… And elephants having bigger trample bonuses compared to cavalry… To offset this bonus however, could be a bonus employed by a phalanx if a group of Cavalry are stupid enough to charge a phalanx.

@Teutonic_knight said:
5. Hilly or swampy terrain can negatively impact infantry and cavalry formations (a real life disadvantage for the tough phalanx); archers / siege / artillery get bonuses if placed on hills

I love this idea, but I’d love it even more if it was not so general like this…

For instance, heavy infantry such as phalanxes would be disadvantaged at rough terrain like in a forest or a swamp so their attack is reduced, but they are more effective in open ground.

Light infantry are more effective in rough terrain, thereby increasing their attack; Cavalry are also more effective in open ground but their movement is impacted at swampy terrain etc - same with heavy infantry.

@Teutonic_knight said:
7. Priests / monks can boost morale just with their presence.

Empires: Dawn of the Modern World also had this mechanic, but not with priests but with other units, like the “regimental drummer” which was a support unit in that game and has no attack, but increased speed and morale (which meant troops took less damage), as long as this unit was within their radius…

More than one of these units however, wouldn’t make a difference in surrounding units taking damage. Just one would positively affect them.

Would like to see such a thing in AoE 4 - something like… a flag bearer unit, a drummer or even a General/Commander unit that increases morale and reduces the damage units within their radius would take.

@Teutonic_knight said:
8. Ranged units in general would be far deadlier but also much less accurate, requiring them to be massed in a formation in order to be effective

I’m not sure about this idea, tbh… coz in multiplayer, people would just spam nothing but archers… discarding everything else… and the entire game would just boil down to who can spam the most archers. :confused:

On the other hand though, I wouldn’t mind at all if there’s a good balance for the other units, like for instance… a charge employed by cavalry can inflict heavy damage to most of these archers in one swipe due to trample damage, or a close formation employed by a phalanx group will receive 20 or 30% less damage or something like that.

@Teutonic_knight said:
9. Siege / artillery units would have to be balanced to be less powerful, less mobile and/or less accurate

I agree with this.

I’d probably say make them more accurate on buildings, but less accurate on units… or maybe not give them splash damage at first, and have an upgrade at the penultimate civ that gives them splash damage perhaps? Not sure, really.

ever tried holding the shift button while creating units ? guess what ? 5 units at a time. it pays off to read a manual once in a while