Coop battles and upcoming Balance changes

So with one change you destroy 2 civilitations’ identities? vikings would become useless in land and water maps (lower eco cant afford longboats) and byzantines just obtain eco power in ezchange of almost nothing. Byzantines would reach imperial age pretty fast with free wheelbarrow and handcsrt and their current bonus.

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Did they really buff boyars? xD Gonna be most op unique unit, very undeserved imo
Hand cannoneers could’ve gotten a bigger buff
I’m fine with the cavalry archer nerf but don’t nerf them more
The artillery change was very needed
War elephants change is pretty interesting

What is still missing is a steppe lancer buff and cumans buff in 1v1s
Also incas need their team bonus reworked, and byzantines need few minor buffs

This is a good question. Maybe now it is a bit less overlapped with the teuton paladin

Yeah a cuman buff, and some other small fixes like SE for Italians and, again, town patrol for Byzantines!

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To me it seems nobody uses CA or HCA at all, not even civs with specific bonuses (or with a playstyle that would suit them).
Mongols usually use Mangudai which is better, Cumans Kipchaks, Berbers Camel Archer and Turks and Magyars have better options in janissaries and paladins.
Tatars maybe use HCAs, but I don’t know how many people play with Tatars in the first place.
I all games that I played/saw, everyone preferred crossbowmen and arbalests to CAs, a nerf seems beyond useless imho.

Also the Boyar buff is nice, but imho is not going to change much.
Halbs and pikemen already did almost only bonus damage vs boyars, Boyars already won vs Paladins, buffing the armor is not going to change key win/loss. They died 1vs1 against TK and Elite battle elephants, and they still do. They died in 7 pikemen shots and 5 halb shots and they still do. The major difference is that they can win 1vs1 against malay elite battle elephants now.

they have seen a resurgence of popularity lately.

all of which require a castle.

also buildings have their armor shown now for example the stone wall has 8 / 10 armor (form what i remember from earlier troday)



It tells a lot when a castle unit is preferred to a regular unit, with all the advantage the regular unit possesses.

the point was - you’re not going to have that option in early castle age - so yeah.

Who goes for CA in early castle age? Maybe the huns?
Hardly anything that justifies a nerf, but on the other hand I’m not really complaining, I never use CA/HCA, I’m just surprised, like it was a dominant unit used too much…

tatars and huns are good examples.

Honestly I saw more huns going for knights in castle age than CAs.
Same for tatars, but I’ll keep an eye on them. :crazy_face:

the problem wasn’t really the bonus damage against buildings flemish militia had. Players usually accompanied them with trebs or bbc anyways. To threaten the siege you need units, and unless you also delete your villagers for more military unit space you won’t have enough units to do so. The tech still gives an instant army it’s impossible to prepare for, an insane amount of value, and has the exact same issues as before. The only thing making it more expensive does is delay when in the game the tech kicks in, which doesn’t solve the aforementioned problems.

Think of the tech in this way. How much would it cost you if you deleted all of your villagers and replaced them with that same amount of Viking two handed swordsmen? Sure, you pay one up-front price equal to the amount of unit upgrades necessary to get to two handed swordsmen, but you also still have to pay 45 food and 20 gold for each two handed swordsmen you create. The cost scales with the army size. Flemish Revolution entirely discards the second portion of that costs, and that’s where it’s insane value comes from: the fact your army size doesn’t scale with how many units you have.

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here you go - huns - cav archers straight at start of castle age.

huns cav archers straight away.


I like all of the changes except the nerf to Flemish Revolution. It doesn’t solve the main issues with the tech. Making the tech more expensive just delays when it’s clicked by like 3 minutes, which is a very soft nerf at best. The whole issue with the tech is how it gives you an instant army and the size of that army doesn’t scale with the cost you pay.

Imagine you were Vikings and in Imperial age decided to kill all of your villagers to make pop space for Viking two-handed swordsmen. You pay two costs to do that. One is just the upgrade cost of getting the man at arms, longswordsman, two handed swordsman, and chieftains upgrades, and the other is the individual cost per swordsman you pay. You also need to add several barracks to quickly get the two handed swordsmen out. Flemish Revolution essentially does that, but completely skips the per-unit cost. Their total cost therefore does not scale with their army size, meaning an army of 60 and 120 flemish militia cost the burgundian player the same amount of resources despite having twice as many units.

Nerfing the bonus damage against buildings is silly too. The unit was almost always accompanied by trebs or bombard cannons, and the fact you could defend your siege with 200 military units is what made it possible to steamroll bases consistently.

The tech needs a complete redesign and rework, not silly stats changes on the unit itself and cost changes on the tech. Never before in the history of this game have I seen a more universally hated and controversial addition to this game. Instant army mechanics don’t work without significant limitations and restrictions in aoe2. I just hope it doesn’t take as long to rework this tech as it did Obsidian Arrows.

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More likely 20 seconds :sweat_smile:

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It’s mostly a question of preference. Tons of people do prefer knights so they will use those even on CA civs, but CA are entirely viable. But ig the nerf is indeed useless cuz the value is so minuscule, really how short of a fraction of second that is 11

Flemish revolution isn’t OP enough for this big a nerf.

Also, is this a buff or a nerf? Because it seems like a nerf to me.

I personally agree with half of them and rest of the half seems pretty unnecessary to me.
I’m not sure about HC buff and CA nerf. People were asking for a buff for HC for quite some time and now we have +10% accuracy for them. I personally don’t think that would make much difference and we may still need another buff. I barely use CA. So I can’t tell if it CA nerf was needed or not?
Turks “Artillery” cost changed to wood from stone is very much welcomed.
Burgandians need a nerf for the civ in general, not just the Flemish Revolution and Flemish Militia. One of their 50% discount should be reduced or something different nerf like tech tree.
WE and E.Boyar buffs don’t seem to be important to me.

i think its more of a rebalance of cost to not be as much food.

I’d rather have a unit that costs 500 food and 20 gold than one that costs 120 food and 75 gold.