Could a Hero unit work in AoE2?

Yeah, I think the way AoE2 has been designed makes it very hard to make singular power units work, be they Heroes or whatnot. Either the unit will get immediately sniped by any clump of ranged units, or it will be too strong and hard to balance.

At the same time, making a unit almost mythically strong in the game strays too far from the game being still realistic. Of course, you have the odd unit here and there that has been the dev’s random ‘rule of cool’ thought such as Mamelukes, but f.e. having a Hero unit have like 1000 hp and high Pierce Armor so that it wouldn’t immediately die to 40 Arbalesters would feel really really obnoxious to the game’s design.

I don’t really like the inclusion of Centurion in the game either because of the ‘aura effect’ it has, but I suspect that’ll be one way of implementing new units in the game in the future and is probably the way a Hero unit will go too. A unit that individually is really weak, but just buffs nearby units. The problem I have with that is it’s just really hard to tell whether a unit is buffed at all. You can’t tell if the Legionaries are buffed by a Centurion or not (you can only guess when you see the unit nearby).

But much like the single-use-button effects from Lords of the West, I really hope that the Centurion mechanic stays within its expansion and won’t find use in the future. I don’t want to use a slippery slope fallacy here, but I just don’t find it healthy for the game in the long term. Even the charge attacks (or Shrivamsha Rider’s dodge mechanic) is really weird for AoE2.

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I mean, the dodging mechanic has been in Star Wars Galactic Battlegrounds before which also uses the Genie engine, so I don’t find it that weird.

I don’t mean weird for the engine, I mean weird for the game design. I can see it work in Star Wars Galactic Battlegrounds as some sort of shield absorber thingy. It’d make sense in-universe. (I haven’t seen Star Wars, but like, shield thingies are a sci-fi staple, right?)

In AoE2, it feels more like some sort of spell that creates a shield on your unit. It’d make sense if the Genie engine was used for some high-fantasy medieval game. But AoE2 is not really that, and I get that it’s just a game mechanic used to exemplify… something? Not sure what the unit was in real life, as Shrivamsha seems to be a breed of horses that crossed seas of sand easily. So sure - the unit’s lightning fast and thus manages to dodge arrows.

I still feel it’s weird for the AoE2 universe, so to speak. ;p

That is of course an inherit problem.
The hero unit has to be balanced with the rest of the civilisation to not be too good or to weak vs. Archers.

I agree.
They should implement a weak version of the hero glow on units that get buffs, that includes Celtic Castles and Caravanserai too.
tbh they could add that to every unit that gets healed by a monk too.

The problem is that adding new civilisations that only offer stat variations over pervious civilisations is pretty boring.
We are also running out of simple stat bonuses to give.
More HP, Attack, Range, Speed, Melee Armour, Pierce Armour, etc. for each unit type is not that interesting and we already have almost all of them for all common units.

That was a space game though.

I’m not really a fan of that mechanic either.
The problem with it and things like charge attacks is that there is no logical reason why very similar units don’t have those bonuses.
Why is this the only unit that can dodge projectiles?
Logically other light cavalry should have the same ability to some degree.

Yes, but what I’m saying is that this balance is impossible to strike, as it goes against the design of AoE2. The game is designed around large scale fights between many units. It’s why Archers have low attack on their own, and their strength comes from the ‘critical mass’ that lets them one-shot units. Adding one more Archer won’t do much, unless you reach the breakpoints for how attacks you need to take something down.

The game is designed around masses, so having individual units stand out, or even compete against a cluster of enemies goes against the design of the game. The only units in the game that have such an individual impact are Siege units, Monks… and well, Centurion.

The game is designed around stat variations for civilizations, and there are still plenty of ways to go before every possibility is exhausted. I get that the devs want to try new things (which could open new avenues for future civ designs as well) and possibly make the new civs also feel fresh, but they risk making the civ feel disconnected from the game, while in the same breath obsoleting older civs. Several older civs have started to feel bland in contrast to the newer civs with new, flashier mechanics.

It’s why I don’t like the introduction of one-use unique techs, or the charge mechanic, or the shield mechanic. Because I worry that this will now be the only way to implement new units or civs in the future. If the unit simply has stronger stats of some kind, it’ll be… boring, compared to other new units. I feel like they’ve started introducing a mechanic bloat to the new unique units just to make them feel new and fresher, while old unique units at most only had one new ability, or the civ had one ‘unique’ thing to them.

The charge attack for the coustillier is meant to reflect how heavy cavalry was used in real life - it’s strength consisted in the impact that the full-speed charge inflicted upon infantry. That is why the first attack of the coustillier is so powerful.

i personally think a hero unit goes against EVERYTHING that has to do with what AOE is “out side of campaign ofc”

for one the idea that a hero unit exists and can be “retrained”. this idea by it self goes beyond the realm of “somewhat realistic” strategy game"

for two- imagine we have a hero unit as you mentioned, you will be faced with a set of problems

1-, if it’s a hero it should not be converted .
2- if it’s a hero , it should have special stats, like big stats or / and auras.
3 if it has big stats and can’t be converted, it will completely destroy monk/siege play. any siege push will be 100% impossible by one single hero, and any monk push will be 100% impossible as well. you can just sacrifice your hero by killing 10 monks cuz they can’t convert you.
4- any infantry hero without proper speed will be as bad as a single infantry unit. the hero will just be microed to death.
5- any range hero will be completely busted. by using it to focus down cannons and maybe trebs. that ranged hero might end up completely shutting down all cannon play as well as siege or monk.

the strong leaders are often “strategists or charismatic leaders” charisma you can express it by adding bannermen or by things like centurion.

the strategist hero, that would be you, the player. you are the strategist of your own civilization

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Was this in the package of the 1999 Age of Kings?

Imo Empire Earth managed the imprementation of heroes in skirmish quite well and that game is very similar to AoE as it shares the same lead designer.
You had two heroes to choose from per age that more or less felt like campaign heroes but all had a special ability.

Yes, you also have the prophets in that game who cast powers…

First off, I find it delicious that AOE4 is so out of ideas that they’re riffing on W3. Secondly I think AOE2 hero like units could be workable if they perform support functions like the Centurion aura or have a fairly limited active ability that could summon units or deal area damage as long as it doesn’t interfere too much with the standard meta. Also they shouldn’t do much until Castle Age.

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That seems fine to me…