Just a question I asked myself. It would be intersting if the Ratha would initially start with very low armor stats but benefit of both cav and archer armor upgrades. Yes it would make it the by far most expensive unit to upgrade, but an insane lategame powerhouse (like you expect from a cav archer unit.
It would also enable to outmicro rathas in the midgame with archers.
It would also synergize both with archer and scout openings opposed to the current archer synergy.
Like if Rathas get 0/-1 armor in the beginning what would make it possible to outmicro them in the midgame with archers, but insanely tanky in the lategame (0+7 / -1 +10 armor), To compensate for it, the cost could be reduced to 45 W / 60 G as this wouldn’t make it easier to make in the lategame but in the midgame, compesating for the lower base stats.
This is just a theoretic thought experiment. What do you think about that idea?
1 Like
This sounds like it would mostly just make the unit really weak in early castle age and really strong in post-imp. I’m not sure what the goal is here. Especially as the unit is already hard to counter through its versatility.
I’m also not sure what the reason you’re suggesting this is. Are charioteers known for wearing two complete sets of armor on top of each other?
6 Likes
The reason is I’m curious about that…
Ofc this would be a side-effect. But that’s why i reduced the wood cost, to compensate for this.
Tbh you could just makethe unit hsve stronger bqse stats in castle age and weaker in imp. Either way it seems like a very weird and most probably OP idea (they would end up with +7/10 armour
1 Like
I guess elephant archer already fulfills that role of an expensive to get but extremely powerful late game unit. In the existing state ratha are on of the few mid game units for bengalis so I don’t think this would be good.
if left at the same stats as currently 9/11 armor. But as I said i would tune them correspondingly so they wouldn’t be THAT high armored. “only” 7/9 instead of the current 6/7. But ofc a lot of upgrade costs to get there.
Probably true. Difference would be the mobility.
It’s already the most expensive unit to upgrade if I’m not mistaken (something like 6900 combined resources including Paiks and Elite upgrade).
You want to make it even more expensive? Why? To give it a bit more armor? And what would that accomplish? Not much imho, not against counter units at least. It’s also faster than WW and less expensive, having more piercing armor than them would make it nerf worthy for sure.
3 Likes
Nah. We don’t need more monocomp ultimate end game uncounterable units please
Sicilian cavaliers are enough
The ratha is already amazing having 2/1 base armour, all archer armours and PT.
3 Likes
you are seriously proposing that a unit has Teuton Paladin melee armor/9 pierce armor (elite Hussite Wagon levels?).
All while being comparable to a Cavalier in melee and a Castle Age cav archer at ranged?
1 Like
I just theorycraft.
The thing with rathas is:
A) They have low damage for their cost, the same as arbs (but lower range)
B) They have cavarly and archer armor class which makes many units deal high bonus damage vs it
C) It is actually slower than a knight, so it can be caught more easily than standard CA
Again, it’s just thinking about “what are the consequences”. I asked this question cause I am curious if this is actually possible balancewise. I know it sounds crazy at first glance but I actually feel it can be balanced.
And yes, I think that the current Ratha is actually kinda underperforming tbh. I expected more.
only Skirmisher really. If you check even Halberdiers, they do damage only vs Cavalry armor class, it’s just that most Cavalry archers also have the Cavalry armor class.
Funnily, off the top of my head I can’t think of a unit that does bonus dmg vs specifically the Cavalry Archer armor class besides Elite Skirmishers.
I saw it on Hera’s stream today, it managed to fend off Mongols CA into Mangudai. I think the unit is spot on balancing-wise. Wouldn’t buff it, but wouldn’t nerf it, either. Short of some cheese strats you can do with the melee part, it seems strong but also locked behind a Castle and not OP. I would rate it roughly in the same boat of Longbowmen power level-wise (clearly 2 totally different units but I’m saying how impactful it is if you mass a bunch of these).
2 Likes
That and the Berber camel archer, basically.
And Elite Genitour.
20 characters
2 Likes
Regardless of whether it’s balanced or not, it’s out of place as this civ already has the best battle ele and best ele archer to use in late game.
I don’t think so.
Both elephants are slow, and extremely expensive on the food side, Ratha fills the role of the knights/cavalry archer during the midgame, yes it’s castle unit so realistically you won’t have a lot of them on the field, still, at least it doesn’t cost food.
Also, I’m not sure the best Elephant Archer is the Bengalis’ one.
1 Like
Sounds good and logic, but shurely is something devs already tested it before DLC release.
What if Ratha is affected by all cav/archer upgrades, but it start costing a little food too for balance?
Thought about this too, but if the Ratha is affected by all the upgrades it would mean, that they have lower initial armor stats. Meaning that they would start less powerful than currently. Then I woul like them to have as less food cost as possible to make it easier to get into them.
But the more I play with Ratha I think that they are actually underpowered. Both in mid and lategame. The Melee variant is basically a knight replacement that takes even more bonus Damage and is harder to get to as you need a castle. The ranged version has too low damage output. Both in midgame aswell in the lategame. That actually leads me to the conclusion that the concept of making it potentially be affected by all armor upgrades could help here:
Ratha now cost 45 W, 60 G and are trained in 12 sec
Non-Elite and Elite Ratha lose 2 PA (-1 in total)
Elite Ratha Gain 2 Melee armor (+4 in total), but the upgrade cost is increased/changed to 1000 G / 800 W
These Changes would make the ratha more accessable in the midgame to give them the powerspike they most likely intended to have. Then they will fall of a bit until you made all the upgrades, then they kill basically everything that doesn’t have bonus damage against them. But the upgrades are very costly and the unit very cost intensive so you need to be careful in not throwing them away against the counters.
Bengalis also need something against camels. Yes they have halbs but everything else is so vulnerable to camels that they struggle big time. IDK what it could be, but it’s a hole in their tech tree. Basically everyting they wanna make at some point dies to camels.
Maybe they just need Thumb ring aswell to give them the option to go full Archers (?). The problem with this change ofc is that TR will affect rathas and Ele archers also…
Both battle elephants and elephant archers counter camels. Especially if you have bengali bonus. This only applies if you get to these units ofc. But you also have arbs and halbs so I don’t see the issue. Actually I don’t think camels is a good unit vs bengalis maybe apart from countering rathas.
TBF I only tested with hindustani and gurjara camels so far and they counter bengali eles just fine.
Not if you get to a proper mass. In lower numbers elephant units aren’t super great vs camels that’s true. But if you have say 40 elephant archers no amount of camels counters that. And that’s how you play these units either way. Either you go full elephants or you don’t go elephants at all.