I think there are many approaches with adressing the coustillier mechanic, one of them that seems obvious to me is that a “charged attack” only works when they charge at the enemy. This doesn’t happen while in combat and not moving. So my idea would be to reset the cooldown to zero for as long as it attacks, meaning it doesn’t recharge when in combat. This prevents them from fighting and also passiveley recharging their attack to be available for the next fight.
Also I would change the charge attack from 8+35 to 8+20 and 11+40 to 11+30.
What are your thoughts? 
15 Likes
Interesting idea, but I don’t think it solves the problem. You can just hit and micro away from the enemy, recharge, and hit again. I’ve been playing with them this way anyway, since it’s probably a good idea not to fight with them when their attack is low. (You don’t want to waste HP).
As for lowering the charge attack, sure. They could also increase the time between the charged attacks, which I think is kind of what you were after and it would also cover the use case I described.
Or just switch them for Cobra cars. Like it would make any difference 
It’s hard to even come up with a solution to balance this bad boy. It’s not like CAs where you can easily pinpoint the problem and increase the frame delay by 10%. This unit is so ridiculously broken and we haven’t even begun to use it to it’s full potential with proper micro yet.
I like the idea that they cannot reaload their charge while fighting, but not the nerf to the charge attack, that would be too much and make them a meh unit, just like
SL.
But I think the real problem is that they can just run away and charge again, maybe reduce their speed when charge is not active would be better.
And maybe, supposed counters like pikes and camels could have some anti charge armor to be more effective,
Don’t get me wrong, i think the unit is in the op side, but a UU that does something better than knights is very interesting. I just wouldn’t like another cav UU shadowed by knights
2 Likes
Yes, I Agree. THis is how I think charge mechanic should works:
-Charge, only loads when unit is in movement.
-If unit stop moving or attack during the loading of the charge its cancel and back to zero.
-Unit is created with charge bar in zero.
Taking this in count, I think it will be better to reduce the charge attack, but reduce the loading time a litle in compensation. This units would be very microing intense, but it worth.
DO not reduce the speed of the unit. Maybe reduce armor to 1/1, or HP a litle
2 Likes
They should need to run for a distance (eg. 5 tiles) to charge. Besides, this powerful cavalry unit lacks good counter, unlike knight-line and other cavalry units.
I am thinking if this idea is feasible. Coustillier do negative bonus damage to pikes/camels (ie. do less dmg against pikes) so that there is a effective counter unit for coustillier. Or coustillier should have an independent armor class that every anti-cavalry units have bonus dmg against it.
A new “anti-charge” mechanic could be that if a unit it is in “stand ground” stance will reduce drastically the damage did by the charge. It would be for pikes and maybe another units, like Kamayuk, Teutonic knight, Saerjent, etc…
1 Like
Or they only recharge when in combat or take damage to avoid hit and run strategy
I have a feeling most people won’t agree with me but that’s fine. I think the charge attack should be removed completely. It is a unique idea, but in practise it’s either going to be underwhelming or totally impossible to deal with as the opposing player. There are no melee units with a “recharge” mechanic like this, the only thing that even comes close to functioning like this is a mangonel, which gives you the opportunity to deal high damage every few seconds at the risk of missing the shot.
Melee units don’t typically miss shots. Coustillier hit for 100% of the bonus damage, 100% of the time as long as they’re charged. Regardless of how much you nerf the unit by reducing the bonus damage or increasing the cost, this will still be true. Which is why I think the charge should be removed. It requires very little skill to use, and it wrecks almost everything it touches. The unit without charge could be rounded out into a viable cavalry unique unit like Keshik, Boyar or Cataphract and the embarrassment of this unit being introduced into the game in its current form will, over time, be forgotten and forgiven.
Unique units are not like champions in a MOBA, they don’t need to have amazing stats to carry the whole game. This is a strategy game based around a complex system of counters, and I feel sad when I consider the new “direction” this unit represents for the future of AOE2, and maybe AOE4 as well.
But is just like, I assume, it supposes has to be microing…
I agree with the no recharge while in combat!
also 8+15 and 11 + 25 is the max they should go without beeing ultra broken.
As they are now they should cost 200 food 200 gold to be balanced.
1 Like
What solution are we looking for and what are we trying to achieve with them?
Right now the unit is not very viable in a straight up fight but is super OP with hit and run micro, assuming you can afford to have no army fighting for 40 seconds. I would like this evened out without removing their swoop in and retreat potential.
Let’s HEAVILY nerf their hit and run ability, however, their combat ability needs to stay the same, otherwise the unit could become useless.
Firstly increases the cost. Its cheaper than a knight but so much more powerful with any micro. Maybe make it heavy on gold but cheap on food? F40 G90? Could make it powerful in low food/eco situations and allow you to defend with a castle and pull off a defense or counter raid! Or it would also allow you easily to throw many on gold and attack early, gaining map control and depending on neutral golds, while being balanced by the fact that you’re burning through gold (fits with the unit, as you’re encouraged to keep them alive and treat them valuable) But make it hard to sustain whole armies of it.
I would argue not to make charging stop during attacking. The easiest way to implement that suggested change is to reset the counter when engaging… That pushes them too far to the hit and run extreme and could be annoying/frustrating to use as you have to wait every last second (or if you’re depending on an ally with them 11), Tbh, actual prolonged engagement is exactly what I want to see more of from this unit!
Decrease the charging damage by 25-50%
Increase the timer from 40s to 90s (game seconds). This still makes it super effective for raiding (as you loop in and out, around the energy base, every second engagement or so will have the bonus damage) and allow you to hit and run in open battles, or have time to hit and heal. However, this would stop it being able to cause consistent damage every minute after creation!
I LOVE the idea of counter units have resistance to their bonus damage. Great idea if it can be implemented!
1 Like
I would redesign charge mechanic to those:
When charge is ready It triples your damage.
Recharge rate double increased.
Bonus damage vs archer class removed
Castle Age Coustillier 8 damage x3 charge + 2 ( blacksmith upgrades ) = 24+2
Imperial Age Elite Coustillier 11 damage x3 charge + 4 ( blacksmith upgrades ) = 33 + 4
It still a strong first attack, but now it is not cancer.
2 Likes
The charge attack should not exist from start.
What is this? A unit from AoM or Starcraft universe?
1 Like
It is AoE II unit. I don’t understand why people complain on Unique Unit or Unique Tech being unique.
1 Like
At least certain units should not take the charge attack bonus as the standard buildings. For example, it is very reasonable for pikes being unable to be charged. Spear-line should take no or less charge bonus attack. Or Coustillier should do negative bonus damage in order not to one-hit-kill pikes. Coustillier can effectively deplete the number of spear-line at the very beginning of the battle while spear-line needs to outnumber in order to win.
This unit’s capability of charging on pikes ruins both historical accuracy and balance.
6 Likes
For the sake of historical accuracy and balance, Camels should also take no/less charge bonus damage. The scent of camels can disrupt horse. Camel units should not be charged by Coustilliers.
//Cyrus deployed his troops with flanks withdrawn in a square formation. The flanks were covered by chariots, cavalry, and infantry. Cyrus also used baggage camels to create a barrier around his archers. The smell of the camels disrupted the Lydian horses and scattered their cavalry charge as the archers fired upon Lydian forces.//
3 Likes
This unit with its crazy ability makes all the old unique units following the basic game mechanism like jokes.
I won’t be surprised that one day we will get new unique units with more crazy abilities like sneaking, passing through forest, teleportation, jumping, sniping, digging trenches, accelerating, barrier…
1 Like
I agree with You, ability to charge stats is crazy. But this is really unique. Unit isn’t boring Cavalry that has a lot pierce armor or melee armor, is strong vs “x” units, but has intresting new mechanic. For now it is really strong, because for some reason developers decided to make charge to deal too much damage, but still this is unique.
4 Likes
The reason i suggested
was because I still think it’s a cool and unique mechanic that should be kept. I’m fine with it dealing significantly more damage than a regular unit, as it only happens once it’s recharged. The values I suggested are still twice the attack of an elite Leitis in Castle Age, but this way they can’t oneshot villagers and monks anymore. Only the elite version would be capable of doing that.