What do you think? I think that Forest Protection should give the building divine immunity a bit like with the SOO and the Shogun which can’t be bolted, otherwise an archaic GP completely counters a Heroic Age GP. Thoughts? It feels bad to drop down a Baolei with Forest Protection just to have it deconstructed.
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I’m afraid that’s how it was intended from the start. Apply it to your TC.
I also don’t like that when I attack Gaia, I get Traitor in the scarab. And it happens every time I attack. That’s how this civ works.
Proposed this, people dint liek the idea. Prposed things like freyr fort should be targeted by Deco, also people didnt like it.
At least is not a full counter since you can drop it on TCs (or freyrs fortress) but yea it limits the GP a lot.
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That’s apples and oranges the scarab is much cheaper than a forest protection recast and the whole point of that GP is to take a unit. An equivalent example would be traitoring the Shogun - also a 3rd age GP unit, which you cannot do.
Oh, where did that discussion takes place? To me it felt like an oversight precisely because you can’t deconstruct the Ullr fort? How is that not the same thing??? I know it works on sentinels, but you get 5 sentinels and it’s also an archaic age power, so it makes sense as it’s not a complete counter.
Thematically, it also does not fit Deconstruct, because under usual circumstances it gives you the resources back, so all you really lose is timing, perhaps position. But if cast on Forest Protection the economic damage is 100 favour at least !
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On the balance server. The fort even has a cost assigned to it separate from normal hill forts. People used the example of it also not affecting things like underworld that can be destroyed and not invulnerable to damage like Hesp tree, vault, etc that shift what players controls them.
As for a god power countering another as an argument for or agaisnnt goes out the window since that already happens.
The most absurd form of it is cease fire bascially counters Norse mythic age Winter god power. Besides also dealing with things like ancestors, eclipse, bronce, flamming weapons among other things. And yea, it hurts to forget theres a Kornos and loose 100 Favor investment. IF you wanna go around it you could make a villager center, Those he cant deco but yea it isnt much playing around it and rather just simply drop it on a TC.
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Yeah, you’re right there are complete GP counters already that’s true… maybe it could give the favour back then as well?
Though sometimes there are clear rules made about GPs not countering other GPs where they could, like the divine protection tag that GP units have, the question then is how do we decide what’s an ok conter and what’s not?
Is the balance discord public? Sounds fun!
Thats a fix on things that were possible before. You could on the original game bolt the Son of Osiris or Nidhogg and be done with them. IMO you shoudlnt be able to completely counter God powers from higher ages with “weaker ones” but its a feature at this point and i guess it also forces to play around it or pick different minor gods.
Yes, it is, i dont have the link thou.
Yeah, I used to save the bolt for my friend’s Nidhogg, it felt good and bad at the same time. XD
I do agree that it’s a positive change, I was just wondering as to the reasoning why other such cases were left in the game. Like in the past you could not ceasefire fimbulwinter (unless you got extremely lucky and clicked it at the same time as your opponent) while now you can. And then my example with Forest Protection which I consider to be the same.
Are we also canceling the restoration?
I think it’s ok for GPs to cancel one another if it’s the same age or up then the trade makes sense. So they’re punching down not up. So with restoration I think it’s in a good spot, with its relatively short duration it also doesn’t fully counter any of the offensive GPs like Flaming Weapons or Bronze, but it helps out, which imo is what thematically makes most sense.
Resto 100% cancels fei bests. Chaos, the thunder drum one and locust.
I mostly disagree there, resto lasts 6 seconds:
- fei beasts - 27s
- thunder drum - 15s, does nothing to prevent the scattering effect
- locust - 20s, yes it’s tricky to aim so might have a point there if used on units offensively, does not prevent damage to farms, berries, livestock
- chaos - 27s to 4s, but I would argue that the lower end is bad use of the power, doesn’t prevent the ‘chaos’ effect, so enemies still not attacking your troops
You dont need to cover the whole duration of the god powers for varios reasons.
- With fei beats he drops it on your army, you resto, you kill the fei beast. Resto or not if you manage to keep fei beast alive for 20 seconds you are winning any fight. That doesnt happen much.
- Drums. You can use it on the edge of the circule and you Will heal all the damage dealt
- Nitpixking the berries/farms part but sure, yo dont protect those. Similar to fei beast, if you units are getting Hit for the whole 20 seconds of locust it means you are chasing it with a pasión and on purpose. Otherwise you simply stand still, resto and outheal any damage as the locust pases through your units.
- Sure if you chaos 1-2 units no chance but then again, why would i resto 2 units…. that aside, any decent chaos you counter with resto. Doesnt matter if it doesnt prevenir the chaos effect if i still outheal the damage from both my units hirting each other and your units hitting mine.
I see what you mean, and I agree that it makes for very efficient counter-play, but this is when skill is added to equation.
I still don’t consider those hard counters, because you have to engage in counter-play AND cast the GP, which necessitates skill and knowledge about the game. And just nulling the damage doesn’t counteract the displacement/stalling effects of those GPs.
Contrast this to bolting SOO in AoT, no skill required click and done, the same with Deconstruct on FP, or ceasefire on FW - no skill or knowledge required. Which means there’s also no engagement from the players, which make such kinds of counters less fun imo. (Only if they’re punching up, I think it’s ok for Earthquake to level Ullr fort or FP.)
If you have a classical GP that HAS THE POTENTIAL to counteract a mythic GP, but it requires considerable skill, that imo would still be fine, because there’s high-risk involved - you might not pull it off, meaning you’ve wasted it and could’ve used it instead earlier for the more straightforward use.
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I get the point of view you have. To me a god power either is able to counter another or it isnt. Knowledge and other things dont matter in my pov.
To some degree, but its not like clicking resto on top of your army under locust is any harder than clicking Bolt on a son of Osiris. Even among those examples some are brain dead easy to do, only the Drums one prob requieres planning. You need as much knowledge to do this with resto as you would to counter flamming weapons or bronce with frost.
Except…. It does. Drums aside. Locust and fei beats use is purely damage if you negare the damage (you heal it back) you negate the whole god power. It doesnt do anything else.
As for chaos. If you start and finish the engagement and your units are at full hp before and after the chaos you countered it.
I mean if you wanna subdivide on how easy it is to do and other metrics sure but it still counters the god power. The test is Just added things to make difference between a scenario and the other.
None of those scenarios requiere considerable skill. A player has to be outright dumb to chase after the locust for 20 seconds. Thats not profound in game knowledge.
You can literally ignore the god power, cast resto and sit though it. You dont have to move your army or anything. Its the same 2 clicks as you do with Bolt or deco
Granted at least with chaos you wait a bit for the damage to happen before healing it up back to full, but then again thats how you use resto all the time. You never use it when your units are at full hp and havent engaged.
If we were talking about using shifting sands to dodge the japan mythic sword or fire fenrir wolf sure i would get your point. But clicking resto isnt some high IQ or micro intensive play.
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