Yes, Pros aren’t all there is and meta develops you definitely have a point. But not to see CA in HC3 and RBW1+2 and KOTD makes me think they’re too far in the dumps. (even in BOA and other TG tourneys they had a surprisingly low turn out).
I’m not really asking for the pros (though it’s fun watching), I just know from playing myself that switching into CA is suicide 9 out of 10 times, or at least not the best tactical option, which is a bummer. Yes maybe I’m not doing it right, but I have tried hard and am 1450 so am not a complete noob.
In a way eles have a similar issue where in late game TG they can be OP but aren’t that viable in 1v1, though adding a couple here and there is strong to break a stalemate vs other knights, pressure structures, mix in with Viet archers etc, though adding a couple CA with archers isn’t as viable unfortunately.
I think a decrease in attack delay and hp should do it, to make them more vulnerable to archers (who are slower) but stronger for raiding and keep them about the same vs knights but worse if they actually engage/get cornered.
Unfortunately pros aren’t immune to placebo/nocebo effect. Most of them believe that they were secretely nerfed in DE. It doesn’t help that sometimes they keep spamming clicks when playing CA even when there is no need to, such as when they try to break up through palissades.
CA aren’t OP in TG no?
They aren’t that crazy in TG’s but you have to consider that the Mongols exist. Mongols go Mangudai every single game in TG’s so there’s clearly a lot of value in a cavalry-archer type unit, and they just happen to have the very best option among them in the game. Being able to keep up with Paladin and also have that raiding potential makes it a good option.
If the Mongols weren’t just top-tier on the back of the Mangudai I think we’d see more players opt for something like Magyars pocket to utilize their cav archers instead. It’ll never be a Mangudai but that mobility has real value in my eyes.
Sorry, didn’t mean CA are OP in TG, just strong. But eles can almost OP in some TG situations.
The main point was more that they are strong in TG but hardly viable in 1v1
The issue with CA is that a lot of civs (everyone without bracer) lack answers against mass CA, especially on open maps.
So CA are in the awkward spot in which 5-10 of them are kinda useless, while 30-40 of them are super strong. I get your idea of trying to buff their “low number play” and nerf them then massed, but I’m not sure if lower their HP is the correct way of do that, because a lot of civs don’t have units that can physically catch up and corner them, expecially with lower fire delay helping outmicroing cav/onagers.
I think that the best way to approach CA problem is to give up the idea of making them good for early castle, because a lot of civ that rely on early castle pressure against CA civs would flat out die, and eventually focus on how to ease the transition into the unit later in the game.
In fact I think that reduce their fire delay would be a really bad idea
This happened when DE was first release; it was one of the first undocumented changes I noticed - they fire slower. The projectile takes longer to exit than the bow appears to show, so I think the solution is increasing the frame delay for the bow to make it smoother.
What do you mean, exactly? There’s no “undocumented change” to the cav archer, there’s been no change to the cav archer. Not just for DE. Practically ever, since they gave them +1 range after AOK.
Are you talking about the animation for the bow draw not lining up with the actual firing rate?
They did change them, as I said they fire slower (or at least it appears so).
I made a thread a while ago let me go look for it.
People keep thinking there is a hidden nerf to the CA’s frame delay in DE, and this link leads to a Reddit post that aims to debunk this misconception by comparing Voobly and DE side-by-side. I tested the link and it should show this.
Just a feeling then, not an actual test.
Yes scouts weren’t changed. However walls and walling were nerfed substantially, Arabia is more open again and even still scouts are not as common as they once were.
Then I wonder why everyone is spamming “pls nerf Franks” threads on Reddit 11
i’m sorry what? scouts are one of the most common openers from a lot of civs.
And?
There’s been 3 nerf Franks posts in the last month, 2 in the last week (twice as many as nerf war eles posts).
Most of them complain about cheap castles and strong knights. Where arguably the Frank bonuses for scouts are more significant, berries and hp. Probably the best scout openers .
Then you didn’t read enough because berries and scouts are mentioned too.
I would like cav archers usable without all upgrades. This would be great for vietnamese and koreans. They both have bonuses for them (vietnamese’s extra HP and koreans’ wood discount and free armor upgrades) but still they dont use them in early castle, and they have better options for late castle or imperial because they lack parthian tactics.
One posible option would be buffing their accuracy a bit. This wouldnt be a buff a buff for any cav archer after thumb ring, so tatars would remain the same.
Pd: also, koreans and vietnamese are a bit low tier, so a boost like this wouldnt hurt at all. I would only worry about huns and magiars
Vietnamese can actually use their CA just fine, since the extra HP partially makes up for the lack of parthian tactics. Korean CA won’t be used just because you’re better of making war wagons instead.
Increasing base accuracy doesn’t change for Koreans. Not much justification for go Cav archer with missing Bloodline.
Otherwise, it would benefit Huns most, only civ already use Cav archer without Thumb ring. I don’t think it is necessary.
The buff to standard Calvary Archers has been discussed for Ages… even pro players and casters have expressed their support.