# Denmark, the boring civ? **URL:** \ **Category:** III - Discussion\ **Created:** [October 18, 2026, 7:06pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/denmark-the-boring-civ/290612 "2026-10-18T19:06:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![hamletlopez](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/hamletlopez/32/155365_2.png) [@hamletlopez](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/hamletlopez)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2026, 7:06pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/denmark-the-boring-civ/290612/1 "2026-10-18T19:06:55Z")
Usually described as basic, It is a civilization that doesn’t excel at anything. It doesn’t have an overwhelming economy or a powerful boom [in fact, I think this is one of its weaknesses]. Yes, it might have the mechanics of Customs House, but it’s too passive and dependent on shipments from other players [almost like a slightly improved resource trickle by using 3 cards]. Secondly, you save 3 or 4 resource card slots, but there aren’t really any strong cards to replace them until Age 4. The rest being pretty useless stuff in this building [one shipment for 500 resources]. Militarily, it’s no different; it lacks strong units and diverse options [unlike its sister civilization, Poland]. You’re once again limited to the “basics”: skirmisher, dragons, and a bit of support from its special militia [nerfed to the ground even before launch of the civ]. It is only up to age 4 that this civilization has anything worthwhile with decent cards, but again limited to those specific shipments 1 because of how expensive it is to upgrade its units [unless you spend money on shipping to upgrade them, which is cheaper, but in contrast, it makes all your units more expensive] and 2 because of its low economy that ties it to surviving on shipments; yes, its age advancement is cheaper but it is useless if when advancing you do not have that economic or military “punch” that other civilizations do have. What can we do to make it fun? I would propose three things: 1.Give the Customs House more prominence. [This would truly make it a valuable building, not just one that’s passively present.] 1.1 Perhaps add more functionalities, for example, the ability to use wonder powers and buttons from other civilizations. [Then it would be worth spending 500 of each resource, or perhaps less.] 1.2 Improve the “Great Bell Tolls” card to provide a constant trickle of resources [equivalent to an additional factory], instead of continuing to depend on shipments from other players [which we know are much less consistent in the late game]. 2.Add some kind of card that allows for a fast fortress or fast industrial build, in exchange for returning age advancement costs to normal. 3.Scale the cost of that useless shipment in ages 2 and 3 [500 of each resource is insane]. In my opinion, in age 1 it should cost, for example, 100 of each resource, in age 2 200 of each resource, and so on. **Thoughts on these proposals? Perhaps someone has better ideas to revitalize this civ, which, besides everything else, has become one of the worst win rate? [in contrast with Poles]** ![image](https://forums.ageofempires.com/uploads/default/original/3X/5/4/5419c514a149f906ff89679e1983df186cb1999a.png) ![image](https://forums.ageofempires.com/uploads/default/original/3X/7/a/7a586a76e31077751fa02840be6bc78b2e30b88f.png) ---
**Author:** ![Lobstersnaps](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/lobstersnaps/32/127165_2.png) [@Lobstersnaps](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/Lobstersnaps)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2026, 8:24pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/denmark-the-boring-civ/290612/2 "2026-10-18T20:24:50Z")
Boring? Maybe, but they are supremely flexible. They’re right up my alley ---
**Author:** ![Kingfisher1787](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/kingfisher1787/32/142926_2.png) [@Kingfisher1787](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/Kingfisher1787)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2026, 9:12pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/denmark-the-boring-civ/290612/3 "2026-10-18T21:12:53Z")
I’ve played some team, and a (tiny) bit of treaty, and more recently a decent amount of 1v1 Sup (at least compared to how much 1v1 sup I’ve played with other things recently), and my conclusions are a bit different. I actually really like their military in 1v1. I’m a more mechanical player, my skirm-goon micro is pretty decent (for a ~1400 1v1 ELO player) and _Snaplock (III)_ is really fun. With decent unit control you can get a lot of value out of that card. I’ve had a number of games where I won with lower resources gathered because of taking good trades. If you consider the dynamics of 22 range skirms and 16 range Dragoons it makes sense. If I move my skirms towards yours, 2-3 lines of mine can shoot when 1ish of yours can. At the start of the engagement that should be giving me roughly 2-3x the damage output vs a lot of civs (in theory, prob a bit less uniform than that in practice). But sometime I don’t even need to take the full engagement. I can poke well and skirm + goon is very mobile especially when you can pull off pull-trick micro. Ski Troopers also have that extra +0.25 speed, at which point I can have 22 range and 4.65 speed for a really strong skirm (though kinda unconventionally so). 16 range on Dragoons can also allow your Dragoons to shoot over your skirms (when masses aren’t huge yet) which is kinda ideal for the poking skirm battles imo. You sometimes just want Dragoons there incase hand cav shows up. You probably don’t always want to use your Dragoons in a skirm goon battle. On their eco, it’s definitely a lower eco civ. I often found _Confiscation (II)_ not to be worth sending unless it made sense for the MU or my opponent clearly wanted to be greedy with shipments. _Great Belt Tolls (IV)_ ended up getting dropped from my 1v1 decks as I’ve rarely been able to consider an FI (It’s basically always an FF) and if I spend a long time in age 3 the value of GBT goes down a lot. Moving GBT to age 3 and dropping it to +400-500 would make it more valuable I think. Both are better in team I think. > [@hamletlopez](#): > > Yes, it might have the mechanics of Customs House, but it’s too passive and dependent on shipments from other players… …Secondly, you save 3 or 4 resource card slots, but there aren’t really any strong cards to replace them until Age 4. imo knowing what your opponent just sent can be huge in a 1v1. I’ve been in age 4, seen my opponent sent 2 Heavies and so I sent 4 Culvs. I’ve been in age 3 and seen my opponent send something and then chosen my shipment based on theirs. Sometimes you might also see a card come in that tells you “time to get out of here” during a push. Regarding the card slots, it gives you more options. You’ll rarely send everything, but having the extra slots means I can add things to give you an advantage if they end up being useful. A lot of higher level 1v1 decks are very tempo heavy, so a card or two that aren’t can be huge if things go late game (and you can take that advantage without costing a lot of tempo cards). Also, you can send 300 res during transition and have them arrive as 700 res (really nice for FFs). If you time it right you can even squeeze in the 50 random res tech from the CH and have the crates gathered mostly by the CH (maybe putting two vills on the large crate for more speed). FFs are definitely possible, but might kinda be one of the only builds. You don’t need a fast age imo. > [@hamletlopez](#): > > **Thoughts on these proposals? Perhaps someone has better ideas to revitalize this civ, which, besides everything else, has become one of the worst win rate? [in contrast with Poles]** > > ![image](https://forums.ageofempires.com/uploads/default/original/3X/5/4/5419c514a149f906ff89679e1983df186cb1999a.png) > > ![image](https://forums.ageofempires.com/uploads/default/original/3X/7/a/7a586a76e31077751fa02840be6bc78b2e30b88f.png) Regarding WR, from my understanding using it to balance things is sketchy given how an ELO system works. I don’t really want to go deep into that right now though. Having said that, that’s probably a big enough divergence that it’s telling us something, but it could just be that the civ isn’t fully optimized yet. I think Poland is op right now so them being over 50% WR isn’t a shocker (though given time they probably just inflate their users’ elos a bit and look normal). I’m currently sitting on an over 50% WR with 1v1 Denmark. I do think they are (a bit) underpowered in 1v1, but I feel they may be a higher skill-ceiling civ (and a lower skill floor) than some others. Snaplock allows a lot to be gained from good skirm-goon micro, and knowing what your opponent just sent is probably not useful at some lower levels. **Currently I also feel the civ may be getting kept down by a serious weakness to age 2 timing pushes**. You have a low early eco, I haven’t tried much age 2 play, but I feel like you basically have to age and that your opponent kinda just has a window for “push denmark and they GG” with some civs. In treaty their MM unit is pretty strong I think, but the rest of their military seems kinda meh. Snaplock is less overpowering, as that type of micro is less relevant at that point, so they kinda seem bad given the lower raw stats. Their eco is also pretty strong with cows + great milling + fur trade. I think both of these maybe fixable. As someone who enjoys the civ, I’d start with something like this **and go from there** : Politicians: Age III: 8 crossbowmen replaced with 6 skirmishers. MM unit: Add a 1.5x vs heavy infantry by default. Counter Infantry Rifling now longer improves them (add a -1x to counteract the +1x that it currently gives them). Cards: Tin Soldiers (IV) is +10% hp and +5% siege armor on Skirms, Musks, and Grens, moved to age II. Fur Trade (I) removed. Agrarian Reforms (I) nerfed to either +20% on mills (Folwarks are super op imo but can be balanced separately). Add a new “Royal Guard’s Training” card to age 4 that gives all your Royal Guard units (which is almost everything) +5% attack and hp. Maybe nerf the extra speed on RG huss a bit. +0.2 is kinda massive imo. +0.15 or 0.1 might be better. ---
**Author:** ![hamletlopez](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/hamletlopez/32/155365_2.png) [@hamletlopez](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/hamletlopez)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2026, 1:31am UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/denmark-the-boring-civ/290612/4 "2026-10-19T01:31:27Z")
> [@Kingfisher1787](#): > > I’ve played some team, and a (tiny) bit of treaty, and more recently a decent amount of 1v1 Sup (at least compared to how much 1v1 sup I’ve played with other things recently), and my conclusions are a bit different. > > I actually really like their military in 1v1. I’m a more mechanical player, my skirm-goon micro is pretty decent (for a ~1400 1v1 ELO player) and _Snaplock (III)_ is really fun. With decent unit control you can get a lot of value out of that card. I’ve had a number of games where I won with lower resources gathered because of taking good trades. If you consider the dynamics of 22 range skirms and 16 range Dragoons it makes sense. If I move my skirms towards yours, 2-3 lines of mine can shoot when 1ish of yours can. At the start of the engagement that should be giving me roughly 2-3x the damage output vs a lot of civs (in theory, prob a bit less uniform than that in practice). But sometime I don’t even need to take the full engagement. I can poke well and skirm + goon is very mobile especially when you can pull off pull-trick micro. Ski Troopers also have that extra +0.25 speed, at which point I can have 22 range and 4.65 speed for a really strong skirm (though kinda unconventionally so). 16 range on Dragoons can also allow your Dragoons to shoot over your skirms (when masses aren’t huge yet) which is kinda ideal for the poking skirm battles imo. You sometimes just want Dragoons there incase hand cav shows up. You probably don’t always want to use your Dragoons in a skirm goon battle. > > On their eco, it’s definitely a lower eco civ. I often found _Confiscation (II)_ not to be worth sending unless it made sense for the MU or my opponent clearly wanted to be greedy with shipments. _Great Belt Tolls (IV)_ ended up getting dropped from my 1v1 decks as I’ve rarely been able to consider an FI (It’s basically always an FF) and if I spend a long time in age 3 the value of GBT goes down a lot. Moving GBT to age 3 and dropping it to +400-500 would make it more valuable I think. Both are better in team I think. Okay, so in summary Denmark depends on heavy intense micro to be decent? [Just like any other civ does] and you think the initial range of skirms/goon gives them enough advantage, wich I dont think is enough to counter other pure skirm/archer based civs. About the eco and customs house, thats what I meant its super slow and the cards are just slightly improved trickles [depending on enemy shipments]. It definitely requires some kind of buff. > [@Kingfisher1787](#): > > imo knowing what your opponent just sent can be huge in a 1v1. I’ve been in age 4, seen my opponent sent 2 Heavies and so I sent 4 Culvs. I’ve been in age 3 and seen my opponent send something and then chosen my shipment based on theirs. Sometimes you might also see a card come in that tells you “time to get out of here” during a push. Regarding the card slots, it gives you more options. You’ll rarely send everything, but having the extra slots means I can add things to give you an advantage if they end up being useful. A lot of higher level 1v1 decks are very tempo heavy, so a card or two that aren’t can be huge if things go late game (and you can take that advantage without costing a lot of tempo cards). Also, you can send 300 res during transition and have them arrive as 700 res (really nice for FFs). If you time it right you can even squeeze in the 50 random res tech from the CH and have the crates gathered mostly by the CH (maybe putting two vills on the large crate for more speed). FFs are definitely possible, but might kinda be one of the only builds. You don’t need a fast age imo. About the seeing your opponent shipments, I do think information is important But that game mechanic is so poorly implemented that many players don’t pay attention to it; maybe it helps you guess one or two shipments, but for the rest of the game you simply ignore it. [Not to mention that this is only useful in 1v1; in team play it becomes a visual mess that, again, nobody pays attention to] The additional slots are ok, but the civ suffers from early pressure and without good cards those slots are just a waste. > [@Kingfisher1787](#): > > Regarding WR, from my understanding using it to balance things is sketchy given how an ELO system works. I don’t really want to go deep into that right now though. Having said that, that’s probably a big enough divergence that it’s telling us something, but it could just be that the civ isn’t fully optimized yet. I think Poland is op right now so them being over 50% WR isn’t a shocker (though given time they probably just inflate their users’ elos a bit and look normal). > > I’m currently sitting on an over 50% WR with 1v1 Denmark. I do think they are (a bit) underpowered in 1v1, but I feel they may be a higher skill-ceiling civ (and a lower skill floor) than some others. Snaplock allows a lot to be gained from good skirm-goon micro, and knowing what your opponent just sent is probably not useful at some lower levels. **Currently I also feel the civ may be getting kept down by a serious weakness to age 2 timing pushes**. You have a low early eco, I haven’t tried much age 2 play, but I feel like you basically have to age and that your opponent kinda just has a window for “push denmark and they GG” with some civs. > > In treaty their MM unit is pretty strong I think, but the rest of their military seems kinda meh. Snaplock is less overpowering, as that type of micro is less relevant at that point, so they kinda seem bad given the lower raw stats. Their eco is also pretty strong with cows + great milling + fur trade. OK, so for the most important part the numbers are there, I would agree that the Elo system is broken or doesn’t show “real” values ​​if it were only at certain levels [high or low], but the trend shows that the civ is simply bad at all Elo levels. My conclusion remains that the civilization needs buffs in the early and late game. ---
**Author:** ![hamletlopez](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/hamletlopez/32/155365_2.png) [@hamletlopez](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/hamletlopez)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2026, 1:35am UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/denmark-the-boring-civ/290612/5 "2026-10-19T01:35:08Z")
Flexible really? I see heavy relies on skirm + goon, how is that flexible? > [@Lobstersnaps](#): > > They’re right up my alley So, can you share to us whats your winning strat with Denmark? ---
**Author:** ![vanBladdeck](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/vanbladdeck/32/59900_2.png) [@vanBladdeck](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/vanBladdeck)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2026, 7:19am UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/denmark-the-boring-civ/290612/6 "2026-10-19T07:19:36Z")
> [@hamletlopez](#): > > Flexible really? I see heavy relies on skirm + goon, how is that flexible? I like their musks and grenadiers after sending the promotions card age3. As pointed out before, their hussars are also strong… So idk, how are they not flexible?? ---
**Author:** ![NotOnline123134](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/notonline123134/32/198008_2.png) [@NotOnline123134](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/NotOnline123134)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2026, 12:21pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/denmark-the-boring-civ/290612/7 "2026-10-19T12:21:58Z")
There’s also the option for archaic spam with some really decent pikes and crossbows. I am also fairly certain that you can build one mean halb if you want to, nvm that their artillery is also supremely more resistant against cav counters. Overall i rekon in 2 v 2s it’s one of the best teamplaying civs that can adapt to your teammates strength with ease even without cards for your units. Stacks even better with civs that have strong team buff cards for the military, as not one of them is wasted on a Denmark teammate. Unlike f.e House bernadotte for sweden when you have a dutch classic teammate. ---
**Author:** ![Kingfisher1787](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/kingfisher1787/32/142926_2.png) [@Kingfisher1787](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/Kingfisher1787)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2026, 2:19pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/denmark-the-boring-civ/290612/8 "2026-10-19T14:19:01Z")
> [@vanBladdeck](#): > > I like their musks and grenadiers after sending the promotions card age3. As pointed out before, their hussars are also strong… So idk, how are they not flexible?? Well, to some extent I think it’s an FF civ, which does that almost every game. You have all the “good” unit cards in age 3 (8 halbs, 5 huss, 8 skirms, 5 goons, 9 musks, 2 falcs, 4 Hospitallers), which means within the FF you a tool for nearly all enemy unit compositions (though their currently seems to be a major weakness to age 2 timing pushes). A lot of civs like French or Portuguese have less options and can’t take as many options because they need things like 1k wood and/or 1k coin. Danes can go 7 military shipments + the xp boosting fort + Snaplock and Cav combat without any big losses. Lose one of those if you want Refrigeration or Royal Mint. The promotions tend to be better vs civs with cheaper but weaker units like Russia as you get the same boost from killing a Strelet as you do from killing a Cuir. It feels fun, but I do think after I began leaning harder on Skirm Goon I started doing better. Very MU dependent imo though. > [@hamletlopez](#): > > Okay, so in summary Denmark depends on heavy intense micro to be decent? [**Just like any other civ does**] and you think the initial range of skirms/goon gives them enough advantage, wich I dont think is enough to counter other pure skirm/archer based civs. Emphasis added. Are you actually going to say that 22 range skirms gain just as much as 20 range skirms from decent micro? I think extra range is something like a force multiplier, it changes how units interact. Your skirms can shot more consistently and your opponent’s can’t necessarily. When you add in extra speed the advantage becomes even bigger (now you can kinda kite their skirms, or chase them while remaining mostly out of range). In treaty the advantage shrinks imo, but outside of that I think it’s pretty big. > [@hamletlopez](#): > > About the seeing your opponent shipments, I do think information is important But that game mechanic is so poorly implemented that many players don’t pay attention to it; maybe it helps you guess one or two shipments, but for the rest of the game you simply ignore it. [Not to mention that this is only useful in 1v1; in team play it becomes a visual mess that, again, nobody pays attention to] Should they improve readability, **yes** , and that goes probably 2-4x for team. I’d like borders on the chat window in the color of the player being taxed along with bolding the shipment name (and maybe subdue allies’ card messages a bit). But right now for 1v1 it’s frankly a skill issue. I wasn’t paying much attention to it in my first few games, but as you keep going it becomes closer to second nature if you start to make a habit of watching it. And no, I’m not guessing one or two shipments, _I’m knowing exactly what they sent for much of the game_ (and to the degree I don’t know, that’s a skill issue on my part). > [@hamletlopez](#): > > OK, so for the most important part the numbers are there, I would agree that the Elo system is broken or doesn’t show “real” values ​​if it were only at certain levels [high or low], but the trend shows that the civ is simply bad at all Elo levels. From my understanding, it’s not really broken, with enough players an ELO should function just as intended, it’s more so that a lot of people try to gather information from it that it really doesn’t show (unless things are way off in which case things start to show through). > [@hamletlopez](#): > > My conclusion remains that the civilization needs buffs in the early and late game. I’ve seen a number of treaty lobbies that say “no new DLC”. Super late game the civ is being banned (though part of that is Poland getting banned imo). To the degree it’s Denmark getting banned too, I think that’s mostly the MMs and eco. If you play standard units I think you run a bit weak in Treaty right now (though more testing is needed imo). As for 1v1, I feel like you’re looking at the wrong things. They have a really strong state that they can get into, they just need a little help getting there. It’s really hard to deal with things like 20-30 musks coming into your base before you hit age 3 and if they throw a little heavy cav in about 1-2 mins later. I’m not sure what you do vs that. Maybe I need to be 12/10ing with a TP up to age 2, but that’s a bit of eco to give up (I normally 14/20 with a TP or the first tax tech). I feel like softening what from limited testing seems like a pretty hard Achilles heel and some rebalancing of some of the late game stuff would probably be best _for a first patch_. Assuming support continues there’s nothing stopping more changes later. Some of the top civs also normally get nerfs so that indirectly buffs weaker civs too. If we assume (on average) new civs will be played in a suboptimal manner for at least a few months after release (which might be a low estimate as some civs have been optimized for 20+ years now), we should expect to see lower WRs right off the bat if the new civs were magically perfectly balanced. I think Poland is running high because it’s op, I think Denmark is running really low because it’s a little underpowered and being played suboptimally. To be clear on both of those I’m largely taking my opinions and reading the data through that with what I believe is reasonable logic, more so than just looking at WRs are working backwards. It’s not impossible that the civ needs more significant changes and that what I suggested wouldn’t fix the problem, but my suspicion is that the civ is a lot closer to balanced through most of the game than maybe a lot of people would think. So imo soften the achilles heel, and tweak the late game a bit for treaty, and hopefully 1v1 and treaty are both end up kinda happy. > [@Kingfisher1787](#): > > As someone who enjoys the civ, I’d start with something like this **and go from there** : > > Politicians: > Age III: > 8 crossbowmen replaced with 6 skirmishers. > > MM unit: > Add a 1.5x vs heavy infantry by default. > Counter Infantry Rifling now longer improves them (add a -1x to counteract the +1x that it currently gives them). > > Cards: > Tin Soldiers (IV) is +10% hp and +5% siege armor on Skirms, Musks, and Grens, moved to age II. > > Fur Trade (I) removed. > > Agrarian Reforms (I) nerfed to either +20% on mills (Folwarks are super op imo but can be balanced separately). > > Add a new “Royal Guard’s Training” card to age 4 that gives all your Royal Guard units (which is almost everything) +5% attack and hp. > > Maybe nerf the extra speed on RG huss a bit. +0.2 is kinda massive imo. +0.15 or 0.1 might be better. In the meantime, I hope people on the ladder don’t read this lol. I want some 1v1s this week and don’t want everyone double-rax musk timing me lol. ---
**Author:** ![Lobstersnaps](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/lobstersnaps/32/127165_2.png) [@Lobstersnaps](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/Lobstersnaps)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2026, 3:13pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/denmark-the-boring-civ/290612/9 "2026-10-19T15:13:34Z")
I wouldn’t say that I’m successful with them, but I do find the Danes very fun. As far as the flexible comment, I like that you have the liberty to double down on whatever unit the match calls for. ---
**Author:** ![zeppelino24](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/zeppelino24/32/148882_2.png) [@zeppelino24](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/zeppelino24)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2026, 9:14pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/denmark-the-boring-civ/290612/10 "2026-10-19T21:14:00Z")
Compared to the Polish civilization, the Danes are, overall, a bit more boring—whether due to a lack of unique cards in their Home City deck or a shortage of unique base units. It seems to me that the developers focused so heavily on the Polish civilization that they ended up giving the Danes less attention; this is something that should, in my view, be addressed in a future patch. Take, for example, the _Knights of the Mediterranean_ DLC, which features two excellent civilizations—the Italians and the Maltese—both of which offer a great variety of units and Home City cards. The new _Baltic_ DLC, by contrast, leans much more toward the Polish civilization, leaving the Danes in a somewhat disadvantaged position. Broadly speaking, the developers should place greater emphasis on improving the Danish civilization in the next patch so that it feels just as engaging as the Polish one. Hopefully, the upcoming _Age of Empires III_ update will bring some fresh content—it certainly looks like a substantial update, given the significant activity I’ve observed in the SteamDB files. Consequently, we should hopefully see some meaningful changes that address these kinds of requests from the community. ---
**Author:** ![hamletlopez](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/hamletlopez/32/155365_2.png) [@hamletlopez](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/hamletlopez)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2026, 1:39am UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/denmark-the-boring-civ/290612/11 "2026-10-20T01:39:38Z")
> [@vanBladdeck](#): > > So idk, how are they not flexible?? Well, they have the basic units just as any other civ. The promotion thing is a plus but not enough to be outstanding [units die before even getting full promotion and require a lot of care keep each one alive]. So Denmark has to follow a strictly rect path, also the lack of revolutions seems to remove a lot of flexibility. ---
**Author:** ![hamletlopez](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/hamletlopez/32/155365_2.png) [@hamletlopez](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/hamletlopez)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2026, 1:42am UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/denmark-the-boring-civ/290612/12 "2026-10-20T01:42:08Z")
> [@NotOnline123134](#): > > Overall i rekon in 2 v 2s it’s one of the best teamplaying civs Sure, it seems created for teamgames only [when you get allowed to sit and boom 20 min]. In 1v1 is a weak civ ---
**Author:** ![hamletlopez](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/hamletlopez/32/155365_2.png) [@hamletlopez](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/hamletlopez)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2026, 1:55am UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/denmark-the-boring-civ/290612/13 "2026-10-20T01:55:26Z")
> [@Kingfisher1787](#): > > A lot of civs like French or Portuguese have less options Wow, that seems not a good example. French is probably the most dynamic of european civs, and Portugal even with the “lack” of options in age 3 excels in solid defense with decent shipments and very known units. > [@Kingfisher1787](#): > > Danes can go 7 military shipments + the xp boosting fort + Snaplock and Cav combat without any big losses OK, but the problem is how do you send 10 shipments when doing FF? Even the XP based civs cant make that at the timing of an FF. > [@Kingfisher1787](#): > > From my understanding, it’s not really broken, with enough players an ELO should function just as intended, it’s more so that a lot of people try to gather information from it that it really doesn’t show (unless things are way off in which case things start to show through). Lets focus on this portion, you say “Denmark has enough shipments and improvements” [Snaplock + promotions] then if you are a top player this should be reflected in WR, because of course you are a beast doing micro and saving those promoted units. But the graphs show different, even at the top levels the civ performs poorly [and we are talking of the best of the best players so skill is not an issue]. All the extra range and promotions “super advantage” should be reflected here, but is not. So, you also say “there is not enough games to make a reliable measurement”, but Denmark is as played as most of the regular Euro civs [8k games]. What I also see for a new DLC, wich should be at the top of most played just as Poland, is almost not picked by players being one of the main attractions of the DLC. Why is not picked? Of course because of the main topic “basic, boring, straightforward and with a repetitive gameplay” aswell as poor performance for competitive. ---
**Author:** ![NotOnline123134](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/notonline123134/32/198008_2.png) [@NotOnline123134](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/NotOnline123134)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2026, 10:49am UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/denmark-the-boring-civ/290612/14 "2026-10-20T10:49:44Z")
Erm, actually i think that is the wrong perception of the civ, mostly due to many players not taking advantage of the right ressource shipments when advanding from 1- 2 to get a perfectly timed 700 chest that collects itself. Also i think out of all civs, denmark currently is a contender for the most tanky defensive civ there can be, so why wouldn’t you be able to reach 20 mins unless you get all outed by certain civs? I agree though that the shipment from their special building is really clunky, and i am not sure that it should cost a shipment, rather i think an inverted discounted papal shipment price would do better for the ressources and enable more strategy. Could even be limited to once per game. Also, all i see in these graphs is, that the ottomans weren’t nerfed hard enough. ---
**Author:** ![vanBladdeck](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/vanbladdeck/32/59900_2.png) [@vanBladdeck](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/vanBladdeck)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2026, 11:07am UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/denmark-the-boring-civ/290612/15 "2026-10-20T11:07:34Z")
> [@hamletlopez](#): > > Well, they have the basic units just as any other civ. No, they have ALL basic units UNlike most eurocivs. They lack real UUs, but have a complete roster of above average units. Thats flexibility by design. Its also not surprising, that the advantages of a “jack of all traits, master of none” approach is more pronounced in teamgames and less in 1v1 (just look at similar designed civs in aoe2). * * * As for the lack of revolutions: You can still manage your classic age4 all-in pushes with a combination of “safehouses” (I) turning settlers into militia and “royal guards” (IV) giving 80% cheaper royalguard upgrades ---
**Author:** ![Kingfisher1787](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/kingfisher1787/32/142926_2.png) [@Kingfisher1787](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/Kingfisher1787)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2026, 2:22pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/denmark-the-boring-civ/290612/16 "2026-10-20T14:22:23Z")
> [@hamletlopez](#): > > > [@Kingfisher1787](#): > > > > A lot of civs like French or Portuguese have less options > > Wow, that seems not a good example. French is probably the most dynamic of european civs, and Portugal even with the “lack” of options in age 3 excels in solid defense with decent shipments and very known units. Wow, taking people fully out of context… what great argumentation… Let’s look at the wider context of that statement: > [@Kingfisher1787](#): > > Well, **to some extent I think it’s an FF civ, which does that almost every game. You have all the “good” unit cards in age 3 (8 halbs, 5 huss, 8 skirms, 5 goons, 9 musks, 2 falcs, 4 Hospitallers), which means within the FF you a tool for nearly all enemy unit compositions** (though their currently seems to be a major weakness to age 2 timing pushes). **A lot of civs like French or Portuguese have less options and can’t take as many options because they need things like 1k wood and/or 1k coin. Danes can go 7 military shipments + the xp boosting fort + Snaplock and Cav combat without any big losses**. Lose one of those if you want Refrigeration or Royal Mint. Emphasis added. I didn’t say “Danes can rush like French” or “Danes can native build like French” or “Danes are just as flexible as French”. **I said “within the FF you have a tool for nearly all enemy unit compositions”** , which seems just obviously true. French can’t send 9 Musketeers, even if they wanted to. French often doesn’t take 8 Halbs, meaning they can’t send them because they needed the deck space for something else. Portugal lacks 5 Hussars, even 4 Hussars. They went years without a decent tanky-heavy cav card in age 3 after losing 4 Mams (they finally have one again now). You might have wanted one for those years, but you couldn’t send it even if it would have been game winning, and your opponent could know that. > [@hamletlopez](#): > > OK, but the problem is how do you send 10 shipments when doing FF? Even the XP based civs cant make that at the timing of an FF. That last point follows into this one, _no, you can’t send 7 military shipments in most FF games_. You don’t have the xp for all of them. The advantage is that you could send _any_ of them. With the exception of being able to send tier 2 cards like 8 musks, 7 skirms, etc, you can send whatever will be the most painful for your opponent, and your opponent has to be prepared for the possibility of nearly anything coming out of your TC. Within the context of a naked FF, is Denmark more flexible than the French? _Yeah, I think so_. Are they as flexible as the French overall? _No_. > [@hamletlopez](#): > > > [@Kingfisher1787](#): > > > > From my understanding, it’s not really broken, with enough players an ELO should function just as intended, it’s more so that a lot of people try to gather information from it that it really doesn’t show (unless things are way off in which case things start to show through). > > Lets focus on this portion, you say “Denmark has enough shipments and improvements” [Snaplock + promotions] then if you are a top player this should be reflected in WR, because of course you are a beast doing micro and saving those promoted units. Firstly, I have suggested a number of buffs for 1v1 multiple times. I’m not arguing “Denmark is totally fine” I’m arguing it has powerful elements that should be considered when thinking about changes. Snaplock is op, lots of civs have op things, but you downplay or ignore them at the game balance’s peril. Secondly, (for normal players, I’ll get back to the pros later) the civ has a number of flashy bells you have to ignore for 1v1. I lost 3 out of my first 4 Denmark 1v1s on the this patch because I was playing way too greedy with Confiscation and the TC age up (which worked fine in team). I later started using Confiscation as a niche card you don’t always use and things started going **way better**. Add in people not paying attention to the messages saying what your opponent just sent and there are a number of reasons **normal people** could be losing games. Even going super heavy into promoting Musks can lose you the game if it isn’t the right MU for it. The below quote is also a great point for the average player. Not doing that type of thing is not playing to a strength of the civ: > [@NotOnline123134](#): > > Erm, actually i think that is the wrong perception of the civ, mostly due to many players not taking advantage of the right ressource shipments when advanding from 1- 2 to get a perfectly timed 700 chest that collects itself. imo the civ’s skill-floor is low. Snaplock requires decent micro (otherwise it’s just worse than say a “Skirm combat” card would be), getting to look at everything your enemy sends is very strong, but in low-tempo, low-ELO games it’s value (even if you pay attention) is probably very low. But something else, if mid-low level players play a few games, get distracted by Confiscation or Lockbows, or something else and lose, and lose again, and lose again and then quit, the WR may be unable to normalize. I’ll assume, for the moment, that people are generally much more willing to play an OP civ and win a few games before they normalize at a higher elo than lose a few games before presumably normalizing at a lower elo. But that type of dynamic could probably also prevent some people from finding the right way to play the civ, and developing the new skills needed to make it work (watching your opponents cards etc). We _may_ be looking at a distorted picture. Counting a few games that really shouldn’t be counted due to disconnects or other issues, I’m currently sitting at a 1v1 WR for Denmark on the current patch of 57.7% from 26 games. That’s an iffy data set for a number of reasons which I won’t dig into, but if I had stopped after my first 4 games I’d be at 25%. _Back to higher level players, mostly:_ The civ’s skill-ceiling _should_ be very high (just based on logic and things we know now). Snaplock is very strong with good micro (my highest rating in DE was like ~1800 in team and ~1600 in 1v1, my micro may be _decent,_ it’s been better, my current 1v1 ELO is 1432 and it was mid-high 1300s when I started the recent set of Danish 1v1s) _but even I’m getting decent results with Snaplock_. Getting good at watching incoming enemy shipments should also be really strong in higher-tempo high level 1v1s. > [@hamletlopez](#): > > But the graphs show different, even at the top levels the civ performs poorly [and we are talking of the best of the best players so skill is not an issue]. All the extra range and promotions “super advantage” should be reflected here, but is not. Basically this whole time I’ve been saying the civ struggles vs age-2 timings. **How long do you thinks pros will take to figure that out?** _Enough of them probably already have_. Certain civs doing the correct build maybe basically an auto-loss right now (unless I’m missing something). imo the civ needs some help against that type of build, and the types of changes I was suggesting _should_ do that. At least partially so it goes from an unreasonable weakness to a reasonable one. Then of course civ is also going against civs that have been optimized for ~20 years, build orders won’t be fully worked out yet, and even if the civ was perfectly balanced that could easily lead to a poor WR at higher levels. But having pointed that out, I’ll also point out that we’ve both already said, we don’t believe the civ is perfectly balanced, we both believe the civ is underpowered in 1v1s to varying degrees. _I guess we’re just arguing about by how much._