I quite like the idea of Goths being able to drop-off food from boar in the same way as Khmer do with their farms. This could only apply to either boar within a certain range of a TC, or boar that had been naturally assigned to the Goth player during map gen. That would prevent really broken laming. That would be a nice buff to their early game. With the LS buff though I don’t know if Goths technically need a change.
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I like that but I would remove +10 extra pop instead. Also will nerf Perfusion to 50% and maybe infantry discount too as that will make their early all in infantry way too strong.
What is your proposal? Can’t remember your thoughts on Goths.
Actually, Goths has eco bonus. Instant loom means they can build one additional villager in dark age.
Yes, that’s mediocre eco bonus. But some civs don’t have any at all: magyars, saracens, byzantines. Many other civs have eco bonuses which more or less the same as goths’ one.
For some reason, you guys compare every civilization with S tier civs. This path leads nowhere.
Goths already has strong castle age huscarl+pikeman play against any non top tier civilization. And their imperial age is amazing.
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definitely not. huskarl needs nerf. a unit thats so overpowered against archers should not be better in a melee fight than hussars are imo
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Delete them, that would also be something done with goths
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What do you mean? Huskarls lose 1v1 against a generic hussar
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Huskarl is good as is - I would support the addition of the last cavalry armor upgrade so their cavaliers would be a good bonus for the civ’s flexibility. It would also help their late game when gold is gone thanks to the scout line.
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Let’s give every civ a good eco, let’s go, including that civ with the absolute best single dimisional late-game capability, let’s go.
That’s how we design civs in 2021, eco bonuses to everyone, every new civ has 2 eco bonuses manadotrily.
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Once the meta figures out some build orders and strats to complement the Long Sword buff, Goths ought to improve strongly vs. Knight civs. With the huge infantry discount and faster working Barracks, the infamous Goths spam can happen, even without Perfusion, by late Castle Age. Remember also that in the Imperial Age Goths have Hand Cannoneer or Heavy Scorpion to counter rival Champions, Bombard Cannon for sniping Onagers, and nearly FU Halbs/Skrims to backup the aforementioned gold units.
How about +5% population support instead of +10 in imp? So if you build 3 houses, pop limit would be 21 instead of 20 limit.
They had +10 pop in imperial when 100 pop was the limit.
If the pop bonus had to be updated, it would be +10% in imperial. Or +5%/10% in castle/imperial age.
Aside from updating it, I don’t think the change is necessary.
Goths are ok thanks to the recent militia line buff imo. I wish their pikes-halbs were a little bit more resistant though.
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5% in 200 pop also means +10 pop limit. So you have to reach at 210 pop limit in castle age which is highly unlikely even as Goths. I personally think this bonus is one of the most useless on as OG ES devs thought 75/100 pop limit would be the standard and 10 extra units which are super easy to spam will make a difference. Right now with 10 extra units when 200 is on the field doesn’t make any impact imo. If devs want to make Goths appealing to pros, I think this is a bonus to be changed into something useful - Starting TC (or the 1st TC in nomad style maps) gives +10 pop space. This will save you skip the first two houses at the start of the game.
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It’s definetely not useless. Goth love to have like 130-150 villagers to make their goth spam and the 10 more pop cap space means they can field 12-20% more army at any given time. It’s very important bonus for a civ that has the lowest popo efficiency in the game.
Still I think 5 % bonus could be reasonable.
IDK I think changing goth currently doesn’t makes any sense, their design is weird and it’s good for players to learn how to beat this kind of one-trick pony civs. Goth aren’t a pro civ, but until like 1600-1800 elo it’s even in arabia a challenging one you can learn essential game concepts against. Goths also like to make games messi, so… I think it’s a nice civ to have in for players to leanr how the game mechanics work and how to stay calm in messi situations and get the advantage of it.
I think I learned the most about the game when fighting against goths. Even if the games weren the cutest ever, it’s important to fight trought this experience.
And Goths are totoally competitive in low and mid elo, even in high elos you rarely have an “easy” time against that civ.
So I would keep it as it is. It has it’s place in the game and I think it’s fine.
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Yeah it is very hard to balance them without changing the whole civ design.
Have to give the LS +1 MA buff some credit for that.
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Goths need probably Thumb Ring, so you can play archers until you get Huskarls
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i did not mean to compare castle age unit to imp unit. when talking about hussar we should compare to elite huskarl.
tbh i am even surprized if hussars beat non-elite huskarls. are you considering FU hussar vs huskarl without imp tech?
Basic mathematic: FU Huskarl has 16 attack, 70 hp and 2 melee armor (main reason that Hussar beat Huskarl), 2.0 RoF. FU Hussar has 11 attack, 95 hp, 3 melee armor and 1.9 RoF (it is important). Huskarl kill Hussar in 8 hits (13*8) and, Hussar also beat Huskarl in 8 hits but Hussar has attack faster 5.2% than Huskarl. In 30 vs 30, Huskarl can actually beat Hussar due to having bigger hit box size but Hussar beat Huskarl cost-efficiently.
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Btw, Malians Berbers, Malians Heavy Camels also beat Huskarls very well. It isn’t cost-efficient but it works (Camels are really fast) when Goth player raids with Huskarls which best tactic for Goths in late game. Using Berbers Hussar and Malians Light Cavalry is better but I am giving Camel as instance in order to show how bad Huskarl is in melee fights.
Also, Franks Throwing Axeman, Malians Gbeto singlehandedly beat all Goth infantry spam. Daut one time beat late game Goths with Celts only creating Woad Raider. He didn’t bother to create Champion. In conclusion, even late game Goth infantry spam isn’t as strong as some are claiming. Devs should give Goth thumb ring at least. In this way, Goth player will save his Huskarls from infantry counterers (HC, Throwing Axeman, Gbeto, Cataphract, Jaguar Warrior, Japanese Champion etc.) with heavy cavalry archers. I want to see Huskarl + Heavy Cavalry Archer combo.
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I feel ashame, since I usually do these calculations all the time 
I’ve just come to the conclusion that usually you have a good idea of melee strength when you just multiply HP by base attack, which for huskarl is 840, but for hussar is 665. Attack rates are mostly very similar and melee armor also has little impact for most generic units. In this case though i see that these slight differences paired with unbalanced overkill makes the hussar superior even if it looks just 665/840 as strong at first.
Good work!