DEVS Plz READ, Abbasid PUP Suggestions - Changes to Ghulam/Camel RIder/ Camel Archer/ Culture Wing/ Military Wing

Age of Empires IV IV - Discussion
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Hi,

THis is my favourite CIV to play so i have quite a bit to talk about after 20+ Hrs on the PUP

Ghulams

I have been trying this unit extensively, as much as it seems good on paper it needs some buffs and tweaks to make it viable.

The food and gold increase from man at arms whilst small … adds to a total 150 resources, in comparison the MAA is 120 resources,

The Ghulam is 25% more costly than the Man At Arms whilst really not being much better and slightly Out DPS’ing them against non armoured units,

They also lose real hard against HRE MAA… 1 vs 1 and Cost Wise which is Not Good even with BootCamp and dont do much better against English Chad Armour with total resources… and it’s not always easy to get to Imperial to benefit from the Camel Support…

I would say the Camel Support whilst super strong is hardly seen because most games don’t drag onto imperial…so we can assume its not researched for the comparisons above,

Palace Guards Fulfilll a better role whilst being cheaper … the 1.19 movement speed on the Ghulam is negeligble and barely affects anything when chasing… running away … pathfinding during attacks or Raiding… it is not worth 150 resorucces

Thoughts on Ghulam… 3 Suggestions to Fix the Ghulam… Note We Need 1 and not All 3 Suggestions

  1. The Added cost stays the same HOWEVER Ideally would like them to have +1 Attack in Castle and the Same +1 in Imperial, Atleast then even though they will effectively hit twice so its a net +2 Attack… it really isnt much better than the MAA if you take into account they cost + 25%

MAA attacks at 1.38 speed
Ghulam attacks the second attack around 1.6 Speed

2) perhaps a unique technology for them in the Castle Age… that is expensive but give’s them an edge… just like two handed weapons for HRE… Give them a Technology where they drop the Shield… But Use Two Swords and its effect

A) Slight movement speed to bring them to around 1.25-1.3…
B) Slight Attack Speed or +1 Attack …

Make this Unique Tech… 150 Food… 300 GOld … so atleast the Ghulam… isnt OP as soon as you hit Castle… and are more effective at Raiding and Just slightly Better Against Other Man at Arms… (Especially HRE and English and Delhi with House of Learning which will still shred them assuming total resources)
Note,… I understand the Goal isnt to make them strong against everything… I know they are very good against spears… archers…and normal Horsemen… but normal MAA do the same job at countering these units and are 25% Cheaper…

So with this Unique Technology… you can a more Durable MAA… that attacks Faster but since its 25% more resources expensive that seems justifiable,

Or…

  1. Keep everything the same as PUP May… But bring down cost to 100 Food and 30 Gold, so atleast they arent that much more expensive than MAA… remember all of ARABS UNITS ARE SO FOOD HEAVY

Camels Rider

The New Change… Like BeastyQt said in one of his videos whilst its less heavy on food it really makes the transition to camels very awkward due to wood cost as well…

The Camel Rider needed a slight buff to be made viable and I suggest its either one of the following

Idea to fix…

  1. Either… Cost… 150 Food… 50 GOld… from …180… 60… So 200 Resources vs 240 Resources

  2. Or… Just give the Camel Rider +1 Pierce Armour in Castle… because Despite their large health pool they die super quick from Archers… Much Faster than a Veteran Horseman who costs 120 resoruces

  3. Or atleast… … Just Give them +20 HP in Castle… +20 in Imperial so atleast with just 5 pierce armour in Imperial it takes 2-3 more shots from Archers… and 2 more shots from crossbows… and 1 more handcanonners

I just feel like a very expensive unit shouldn’t die to arrows whether archers or crossbow faster than a Horseman

Note I dont want the Camel Rider to be buffed by all the methods above… just one of which should be enough… it has high health pool…gives debuff and gets good upgrades by Post Imperial… but in Castle Age it feels not worth using

ANd it makes no sense to have it as a support unit… because its a unique unit that needs to shine and get more use and also the Camel Archer gives the same Debuff to Enemy Horses and same Buff from Military Wing so it really needs just some tweaking

Camel Archers

Nothing to Note, the new Change is good to have them Micro… but it’s just abit… just a tiny bit too broken… they shoot the arrow whilst they are turning when hit and run and makes the visuals look wierd…

Just some tweaking on this so the arrow doesn’t leave the camel archers hand until he fully rotates makes it more believable… which will add maybe a 0.1 second delay or something…

Just a delay that is tiny enough to make the arrow just leave the archers hand when he is facing the enemy… so maybe 0.1 of a second… but Not Actually like the Delay Before the PUP… GOD that was terrible…

Culture Wing

Fantastic Wing, but I think buffing it just slightly will help make it more viable…

  • Idea to fix:
    Perhaps upon Researching the Culture Wing… Subsequent Age Ups are 5 or 10 Seconds Faster… Which I hope doesn’t sound Too Broken and Makes Fast Castle into Camel Riders/ Ghulams Much Quicker

Military Wing,

Also Good Wing, However it is missing something in the Fedual Age… 4 Units (2 Spears and 2 Archers) is a Wonderful Kick start Early Fedual However doesnt feel super useful Late Fedual… Same thing with Castle Age 2 Camels and Imperial 3 Hand Canonners…

_ Idea to Fix:

Perhaps er give us the opportunity to get additional units later on… even if not for free… just discounted and produced instantly…

The Military wing can make the house of wisdom for example work like the Kremlin and Provide 1 Ticket every 90 seconds which I hope is balanced where you can Pick either say… 2 spear/2 archers and instantly produce at at a Discount … say 35% for example… just a random number…

or 2 Camel Riders once every 90 seconds at 35% Discount
or 2 Camel Archers once every 90 seconds at 35% Discount
or 3 Hand Cannoners once every 90 seconds at 35% Discount…

Maybe 90 seconds is OP… then thats ifne make it … 105 seconds… or 120…seconds… and should act like a ticket and produce the units above instantly at any age

But the Military Wing Ideally Needs to have some usefulness in Fedual Age Apart from Boot Camp… and with this Change… The House of Widsom willl work somewhat like the Farimba Garrison and Somewhat like the Kremlin whichin terms of tickets…

So if you play long fedual… you are still benefting from the Military Wing… and if you tech up to Miliary in Castle you can get less Camels Upfront but get more Camels later on which honestly would feel more useful

Thanks for reading this and hopefully someone takes this into Consideration

Malek

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The Ghulam Cost Reduction or slight attack speed increase is nice, yes they’re feel too expensive for what they do, they should at least easily beat English Armorclad MAA (well, HRE MAA is anti armor specialist so that is expected), attack speed increase is also nice so it can actually deal a lot of damage to Xbows, And Goldless unit

But no, don’t buff their movement speed please, or revert it with aspd buff, chinese palace guard suffer twice from new ghulam as they lack 1 armor (in which ghulam teice strike actually do +2 compared to other MAAs, and yeah, armorclad just negate 4 damages because of that) so at least palace guard (i’m chinese main LOL) keep their specialty at being cheap raiding unit and can disengage or avoid fight with other MAAs and the new ghulams. Or just buff PG’s speed (well that would be OP as hell XD) So no, don’t buff ghulam’s movement speed

And about camel rider, yes they feel too narrow in what they can do, they are anti cavalry specialist but that’s it, AoE2 has some good mechanic that make camels receive less bonus damage from spears etc so maybe that can be dev’s consideration, or maybe just make it cheap

Overall, Abba need some good Castle Age Power spike to avoid boring multi TC strats that they do now, Ghulams and Camels change may be the hope

Well late game camel archer is OP, but i also got new grens if ever abba go imps themselves so for me i’ts no complain XD (Other civ’s main can reply here too)

I like the thing about military wing change you suggest, the HoW is super plain right now, as there is only economic wing that really worth picking in feudal (and 90% of abba’s game the player will pick it) maybe we need some more change, for the other wings also?

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Hi hisovereign

About the Ghulam, Agreed I expect them to still lose to HRE MAA because not only does it get +6 vs Heavy but it also moves faster and +2 All Round Due to two Handed Weapons… and its the best unit all rounder HRE Has, However again if they atleast give them an attack speed (and give them two swords then atleast the unit looks different enough from other MAA) and will help it vs Armour Clad MAA

With Regards to Palace Guards… With Yuan Dynasty the Ghulam WOULD NEVER Catch up to you at 1.5 movement speed lol… so even bringing the Ghulam to 1.25 (which would be just in line with HRE is nothing special and barely helps with the pathing/raiding capability from 1.19)

ANd without YUAN Palace guards are still 1.35 Movement I believe…

I feel like the best way to deal with it is just to maybe …

  • Bring down the Food Cost to 100 and the Gold Cost stays at 30
  • Provide that Unique Tech with +1 Attack and Two Seperate Swords. or atleast the attack speed but make it 20% whichever is less broken… so it hits at 1.0 and 1.4 roughly… Ideally theat Unique Tech can still be in Castle Age… I feel like the attack speed will help them shine and help them vs Heavy Armoured Units

I don’t the think the Camel Needs the Reduction of Attack from Spears because it does have slightly higher health than knights but again maybe just adding an extra 20/25 HP like I suggested will help it just slightly so its not a C TIer Unique Unit into B Tier (20/25 means they would get +6/ 8 extra HP with Biology) which would be quite potent in Imperial… Just an Extra Hit from Hand Cannoners… 3 Crossbow and 4 Archer Attacks Roughly… 1 extra spear attack and 2 MAA attacks…

They can then be Tanky Enough without Reducing the Cost… I would be even happy to have them at 180 Food 60 Gold as previously but we’ll see what they end up doing…

I would be also happy with just the 150 Food and 50 Gold to begin with if they decide to leave everything the same…

The House of Widsom Military Wing Suggesiton I made would really make the Military Wing Viable… Just like the Kremlin now is favoured over the Golden Gate Most of the time… I believe my suggestion would make it really long term focused and just gives you tickets when you can cash in… and if it seems to OP thats fine… make the ticket once every 100 seconds… it just needs to come down to nailing the mechanic

Also… the culture wing is not a bad choice honestly but just the -10 Second Age Up time will make it viable enough I feel like…10 seconds makes a difference if you are waiting on House of Wisdom Upgrades or Veterancy and could be game changing without being too OP or two different from what it is now…

Also… the Imperial Age Monk Tech Really Needs to go… or… they need to just put it in the Monastry and find another Alternative…

I have had this IDea that at the Imperial Age… Allow Abbasids Culture Wing Imperial Research to Construct a 3rd Landmark… they are Many Landmarks in the Middle East… and that would be an interesting Play… and it also makes sense to have a 3rd Landmark that does something else especially if you put a price to invest in it…

Anything thats not a Keep However because that would be super lame…

Maybe a building that Allows Recruitment of a Specialist Unique Unit… like Camel Gunners LOL or something Else…

Mamelukes could be an option… in AOE2 they threw swords and in AOE3 they were a VERY high Cost but VERY high Health Horse Unit… maybe that could be an explored option…

The economic/trade wings are fine as they are now