Others have done it differently for decades. This is a new game, a new context. You cannot argue that they “always did it like that”.
It’s not true and it does not explain WHY it has to be this way for this game.
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This is why I didn’t say, “always did it like that.” Instead, I said it has been worked and iterated for decades. There are different games with different zoom levels out there. If the dev team chooses this type of camera and zoom in, which they likely did very early in development and have tested internally for a while now, then I trust that the current zoom out is fine, maybe not perfect, but fine, playable, and working properly.
They are not trying something wild and new here. They worked on the type of camera setup that many other games in the genre have and could see why those cameras were chosen, the tweaks they needed, and more.
That is why I will take the side of Developer intent and people’s experience in the industry over player feedback on something as close to the core gameplay mechanic of the game.
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There were many projects that had a ton of time invested by seasoned devs and still failed miserably. They’re only humans. Some more intelligent than you or me, some dumber.
So you just believe in it without it really making sense? Does not satisfy me, but I guess it’s fair. Each man his own religion : P
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I agree with the limit, and nobody is asking for a limitless zoom level or see the whole map. We just want to zoom out a bit more because now is too damn close. Just a 20 / 30 % more would be more than enough.
The whole point made by Day9 in the video is that most players aren’t able to adjust the zoom to the ideal level. Players tend to think they want more zoom out, which is understandable, it’s nice to be able to see more, but zooming out too much brings some problems to the gameplay. The player then associates these problems with design failures, when probably the best solution would be to zoom in a little.
Therefore, “giving players the option to zoom out however much they want” is the exact opposite of what devs should do, according to that vision.
Anyone is entitled to disagree with what Day9 thinks, of course.
There are pros and cons to giving players more options.
Obviously, a skilled player who dynamically adjusts the zoom to the situation will have the best experience with a wider range of zoom options. However, most players aren’t able to accomplish that, and will only harm their own experience by zooming out too much.
If devs are able to achieve the “perfect” zoom level, it is arguably correct to limit the game to such zoom level, or maybe just a little further from that, in order to grant the average player the best experience.
To present my own anecdotal experience: it took me a long time to realize that the max possible zoom in AoE3 DE wasn’t adequate for me. I began having a much better time with the game, when I started zooming in a little bit, even if it gave me a competitive disadvantage. I rarely remember I can change zoom on the go during a match, so having the option doesn’t add much for me.
I still think AoE4’s zoom is a bit too close, and I wish devs change that, but it won’t be the end of the world if the zoom remains unchanged. Also, I don’t think the zoom should be increased a lot, like many people are asking.
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I was certain this change will be made without a single word. Even more - the zoom range will be even slightly bigger than in II/III (pretty much the same level) to overcorrect.
It’s very concerning.
There is no justification. This is a pc game - there is such a thing, you know, these what they’re called… GRAPHICS OPTIONS!! Having framerate drops on this low-mid spec new game? Lower some of them, simple as.
There is no justification for crippled zoom range.
Very concerning. If THIS is not going implemented without a beep, then what about complex, work-intensive
changes and additions?
Are we making game for clueless casuals on potato machines? It’s just few lines from devs and still waiting for proper closed beta/survey response, but I do not like it honestly.
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The problem is that that becomes a never-ending adjustment. If you increase it then some people will now play a bit zoomed in, because they liked the previous zoom. Some people will still complain that is not enough, and so forth.
The actual feedback Devs need to take away from this discussion is not going to be the zoom levels. Maybe they need to scale buildings differently, maybe adjust camera behavior on mountains, or add functionality to the minimap that makes it more useful.
Most of the time when people raise concerns over the zoom levels in RTS it is not actually the Zoom levels that is the problem, but some other element or a combination of elements that could be more redable at the existing limit of the zoom level.
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Then make that the default zoom level and maybe (if you are really concerned for the dumb dumb player’s safety) have the ability to zoom with the mousewheel turned off by default.
This way the complete muppets would not zoom by accident and sue the company, and the chad normal player can unlock his glorious free zoom.
Yeah, or do that and indefinitely increase the workload of something that would be a simple number change, lol.
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It does not become that. I have played all original and DE versions and don’t recall ANY people complaining about anything with camera.
Let’s not make up problems where they do not exist.
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Take your pick of thread about zoom in/out in AoE 2 DE
It’s not about players accidentally changing the zoom. It’s about people willingly adjusting the zoom to a bad level, having problems with that, and blaming the game for their bad experience, when none of that would have happened if they weren’t given the chance to zoom out that much.
The solution is the same, isn’t it?
And what?
People not knowing to use the scroll wheel to use zoom feature? Guy not knowing about replay tools for people covering pro scene that allow for weird adjustements for what’s displayed, or not being aware of UHD pack DLC?
Every other thread is about ‘HOW’ to zoom, not about arguments about it’s scale, range, gamepay impact.
Let’s remove hotkeys because people don’t know/use them. So you want a game for mentally handicapped casuals that are too lazy to look into options menu in a PC game? 
AoE2HD/DE menu is super clear and easy to read and use to adjust and learn everything required about a game.
14yo gamer creates a thread about ‘I don’t know X’ and that’s the reason to cut discussion about IVs zoom level short? Please.
Even if you had 100 legit threads about ‘I hate this zoooooom!’. That’s like what… 0,01% of people that bought this game?
Obviously people that like it don’t create threads praising this thing. It’s expected to have good zoom range in AoE game. In-game, with friends, in threads I’ve visited I’ve never seen any complaining.
Even OG AoE III Dev team took a hit and implemented proper zoom level, even when their 3D engine handled it poorly 
Let’s aim high and not try to match expectations and capabilities or cluless people or ones wanting to play new releases on potato machines. If Devs want to do that- they better make it 10$/f2p.
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At the end of the day they are creating a product that they want us to play. If we tell them there are easily workable changes that should be made for usability, they should probably listen. People aren’t arguing they should change the entire creative vision of the game.
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I’m seeing some arguments in this thread along the lines of “we shouldn’t give people the option to zoom out because it may make the game harder for them”
If players are so dumb they can’t zoom back in for certain moments like mircoing in fights, then I guess they are also too dumb to use hotkeys and control unit formations as well, we should get rid of those too right?
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Yes - a lot of them are. That’s the natural conclusion of ‘reaching wider market’, i.e. including people that have zero knowledge or skills (or desire to acquire them!) and implementing design changes to accommodate them, and ignoring their core player base and the most dedicated fans of the IP/genre.
It’s sad but that’s the situation with a lot of popular brands.
Look at… well anything. From Dragon Age I-II, Magicka 1-2, any old Thief- Thief (4), Deus Ex 1-2 to Empire Earth II-III…
Lol we’re talking Relic, so I guess I should mention DoW1/2- III. It’s a kiss of death that makes interest drop 90% 
Game like that, made for a mass market, is worth buying. Buying Game Pass and beating campaign in one weekend and moving on. No depth = no longevity.
What happened to ambition for a lot of folks. When I was like 7-12 I played a lot of games above my capabilities and enjoyed it a lot, it was exciting. If Jimmy gets confused by ability to scroll to move camera maybe he should stick to games that do not try to challenge him at all. But even then, why so many developers out there try to suit their ‘needs’?
(it’s obvious why, it’s a rhetorical question).
Maybe let’s make medieval-themed auto-battler mixed with idle clicker mechanics. These things are popular as hell on mobile devices and even a few on PCs, player base will explode! 
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You’re comparing two completely different things.
Having the option to use hotkeys has zero impact on the experience of someone that doesn’t use them. The player won’t be able to ruin their experience by setting hotkeys.
On the other hand, being able to zoom out too much can ruin the experience. The point is that the player rarely recognises the zoom is the problem, and thinks the game is bad when it was just a matter of settings. This isn’t exclusive to “dumb” players. There is no need to talk like that. Experienced players make the same mistake.
The choice, on the devs’ side, is to give or not to the players the option to ruin the game for themselves (or to make it perfect for themselves, if they’re able to).
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– Game for one weekend.
– people who were waiting aoe 4 game for years (20 years) be like:
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*Cough cough* You keep going on with it. Again, why not allow free zoom and…
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I’ts amazing how you can understand and apply the logic to one and not the other.
The cognitive dissonance is astounding.
You are correct, having the OPTION to use hotkeys has zero impact on player experience, unless of course if you consider that players who dont’ use them will be unable to beat players who do at higher levels.
THE EXACT SAME PRINCIPLE applies to zoom, unless you really believe players will just zoom out to the max despite it somehow significantly making them worse at the game. If this is really an issue (which it isn’t) the devs could just make a “enable extreme zooms” setting in the graphics options.
Also your last point “give the players the option to ruin the game” this is so stupid, I can already ruin the game by setting my resolution to 480p and limiting my framerate to 10fps, I don’t even know where you got this idea that somehow giving players options makes them likely to mess it up, but contrary to your belief a plethora of options is a hallmark of a GOOD game because it allows players to enjoy the game how they want.
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