Different trait for German

I know why they got current trait - gives uhlan per shipments.
Dev Team probably wanted German players to play aggressively.
But nonetheless, I want to see the other version of German.
I want German to have some mercenary-specialized traits, like what sweden has now.
I think it would be more suitable to the nationality what german in this game is showing - HRE+Prussia+Austria.
(ex: Jaeger can be trained in barracks because Hessen is a German state. Landsknecht can be trained in barracks because they are from German Mercenary band. etc, etc…)
Germany was well known for their mercenaries, not the Sweden, if i’m right.
(btw, why sweden has 25% mercenary card when german has 20%? Simply RIDICULOUS. Where the hell did they get the idea of Sweden as Mercenary-State?)
Also, Prussia itself used quite a mercenaries.
If i’m right, 70% of army under Frederick the Great were MERCENARIES at some point.
So it would also be more historically-accurate, if one can speak.
And give the Units-Per-Shipment thing to Sweden so they can be aggressive civ as DEV Team intended.
Not to mention to remove mercenary trait from Sweden and nerf the torps to balance the civ.


Germany already has Needlegunners and Doppelsoldners (which is wrong, as the “Double Soldier” should be the Mercenary version, while teh Landsknetch should be the base version) so they do not need Jaegers and Landsknetchs in their Barracks.

It is true that Germany is no longer the mercenary civ, but making Mercs hireable on base buildings is not the solution, as all it would be is a copy of Sweeden, but instant and without the resources to support it.

Germans and Dutch should have a second Saloon, instead, as not only would it be more original, it also would not be as OP as Sweden.

Their ingame king, was known to hire vast armies of mercenaries, to fight in the 30 Years War.

Swedes are already too strong as it is, even if you take away the Barracks Mercs. Swedes players never even use Mercs to begin with!

Yeah, that is actually not a bad idea. Two salons could be the alternative. Good thought!

About this, I don’t know…
What I learned is that he is the one who didn’t like the idea of mercenary-army system which was prevailed among the european countries in that period. So he actually raised the ratio of Swedes conscripts in the army, whom would have been seen more reliable to him(50% were Swedes whereas less than 20% and 30% were their own people respectively in Spain and Netherlands).

That’s exactly what I thought. So I mentioned that the torps should be nerfed at the end. I mean, SEVERELY. Sweden players should risk their civilians to gather food in this game. Not spamming their torps to gather their food while their civilians are chopping woods to build more torps or mining some gold. Same goes other countries with self-gathering buildings. I HATE JAPAN for this very reason.

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The development team doesn’t have to touch the German concept right now. The real problem is that the Swedish concept is cluttered and plagiarized other civilizations. Probably, unless Sweden is a remake, this controversy will continue.

Yeah, that’s what I think. The whole concept of Sweden is kinda blurry. I don’t know what exactly Dev Team wants Sweden to be.

Germans don’t have a good coin bonus that would be needed for Mercenaries plus their units already cost more coin.
Uhlan costs more coin that Hussar, Dopplesöldner cost a lot of coin but also Skirmischer and War Wagon are coin intensive.

I feel like the Swedes in a few months will be very different from the Swedes now. They had a “crazy” idea for a civilisation and patch after patch they make them more “normal”. Not a bad thing. I think Sweden should have Skirmishers.

This is easy to fix, just lower their max settlers to 50, like the Dutch. This will actually make Swedes DEPENDANT of Torps, rather than having then as a top-off bonus.

As it is, Swedes are really playing with the equivalent of around 130 Vills, with all Torps and 2 Factories in the Industrial Age.
Heck, I put my first Torp near Hunts sometimes, and it is basically another Vill for every 3 Torps!

I disagree, Leather Cannons and Caroleans with Snaplock, already make Skirm irrelevant.
Send in the card that upgrades Leathers to Guard level, and you have a unit taht is better than any fully carded Skirm in the game.

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Hope that would come true. Current state of Sweden is… well, duh.

Yes, you are right.
Germany needs a hell of coin right now. So I think some additional mercenary bonus will be needed if Germany actually will be changed in the way what I want even if it is not the same way the sweden does.

Sweden should have Skirmisher so those units can be nerfed without making Sweden too weak. Skirmisher also fit them historically.

Germany is overall a good civilisation so they would need a nerf to counter balance Mercenary bonuses.

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There is no need to nerf them, the units themselves are not the issue, the Swedish Economy is.
If they could not spam Caroleans and LCs so much, those units would be balanced.


The Germans mercenary play is based around their larger shipments, problem is that this is not sustainable and most of their merc shipments aren’t that exciting. The “German” mercenaries are simply variants of the regular German units Jaeger/skirmisher Landsknecht/Doppelsoldner and Black Rider/War Wagon.
The Swedes have those three mercenaries but they fill a hole in their units line up since Swedes can’t build Skirmishers, Halberds or Dragoons.

I’d say Germans should have all their Merc shipments be infinite and have more variety in them, those army cards are fun, but when sending Mercenaries you probably want to specialize.
Germans could have Highlanders in age III for example, to fill the Musketeer spot and Stradiots for the Hussar slot.
With infinite merc shipments Wallenstein’s Contracts could even be usefull again. Currently it doesnt even work on the army shipments.
Only problem then is the slow arrival time of merc cards, which for some reason is faster with Swedes who should be more relying on building their mercs. That’s the only merc themed ability that should be German instead of Swedish I think.


German mercenary mechanics indeed need some rework. It is fine before DE (but still not the most viable), but is now overshadowed by Swedes (which is overall stronger and also more sustainable).
The laziest way is perhaps the traditional method of “adding a novel trait to the basic”: Swedes can train their mercs from barracks/stables, so German mercs could probably (1) have more improvements cards/techs (2) arrive faster (3) cost less, being more cost-effective than the current state of “more xp for more units”.
Wallenstein contracts can also make the merc shipments arrive faster.

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The Mercenary Loyalty Card and the Wallenstein’s Contract Technology should be reworked.
Maybe Wallensteins Contracts makes training and shipments of Mercenaries cheaper.
Like -50% shipment cost (including infinite ones) and -25% Saloon recruitment cost. On top of that there should be some other immediate bonus like a shipment of some mercenaries.
But the Mercenary Loyalty Card gets removed.
The infinite ones aren’t that good because you don’t get many shipments as a German anyway. Reaching 25 shipments will take you longer than all other civilisations.

They should also get a higher Saloon limit though other cards like the Dance Hall.


Totally Agree. Especially, Wallenstein needs some buff. Current one is… useless.

Yes, Wallenstein’s Contract must be reworked. It’s highly useless now.
Your idea of reworking it actually sounds very good! But if we’re gonna nerf the shipment cost(100% to 50%), I think we’ll need to reduce the cost of tech too. Otherwise, I don’t think that’s gonna be that useful unless we play treaty games.

The nerf in the shipment cost is that there is no Mercenary Loyalty Card anymore that reduces the infinite shipments cost by 25%.
Wallensein’s Contracts makes all none Infinite Shipments completely free at the moment so 50% would be half of that.
The disscount on infinite ones would take very long to repay.

Gold intensive mercenary civ that tries to force an age up and play in fortress and industrial, with an artillery focussed alternative.

You can tell by all the mines they can ship, torps as a general concept, the Englesberg Ironworks and then all the mercenary cards and then also all the artillery cards.

Caroleans were probably intended to be relatively cheap and okay alternatives to the musketeer but ended up being completely OP and thus creating an Age II civ (with most of the nerfs affecting their late game capabilities).

Compare the Ottomans on RE. The way people played them was an ultra aggressive rush civ. The way the AI plays? Turtles. How do you think the civ was envisioned? My money’s on the turtling explanation (especially when you factor in the outpost shipments).

To be fair, the free villagers were/are an invitation to rush.

Oh, undoubtedly. But it doesn’t seem like the original developers intended it to be taken that way (or, alternatively, RE did something that caused rushing to become the main thing, perhaps altering some kind of disadvantage that existed in nilla, which I only ever played the one multiplayer game of… hilariously as Otto but it was team and I lagged out).

Or maybe they (Ensemble) just decided to give the Otto AI its outpost obsession for giggles. I guess that’s possible.

All nations used mercenaries early on, Sweden was in not even a little way unique to that sense. The entire Dutch army at the beginning of the 80 years war was German mercenaries. Germany was supposed to be the mercenary civ and the devs couldnt make up something unique for the Swedes so they just reused old mechanics and units. Its pretty blend and boring and they made them way too strong.

Also Landsknecht were common among the entire HRE, double soldier and Landsknecht are pretty much interchangeable. A landsknecht can be a double soldier and a double soldier can be a landsknecht.

Only difference is that the double soldier would take more risk and being payed double for it, hence the name double soldier.