It’s almost as if monks were able to steal freaking war elephants without the need for any upgrade while paladins require thousand of ressources in upgrade.
I don’t get your point. 1 knight usually beats 1 monk… 2 war elephants will always kill 1 monk. Fact is, counters don’t always win 1 on 1. Why make it win 2 to 5 with 0 damage for the scouts?
The point besides which counter loses to what is that devs killed one of the oldest strats in arena just like that. Why you think it was usually monks vs monks in arena? Because full monks would convert anything in small numbers. You either went slow castle in favour of many scouts, or fast castle + full monks to counter enemy monks…
1 knight usually beats 1 monk? Not my experience.
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What are you even on? Meta has been scouts+spears+monks on arena for a while now, and you sound like you’re immensely overreacting. The change is supposed to prevent stuff like insta conversion on scouts (it could happen, even with Teutons) while also preventing stuff like one random scout deciding that he will never be converted. For most conversions the outcome will be the same as usual.
Single monk on the open field vs single knight? Yes, knight will likely kill the monk (sure not always, but more than 50/50).
Not the case when you bunch up monks. 100 monks converting 1 scout would >99% of the time end up converted in 4 vululus. It takes a minimum of 8 now. No matter whether you convert with 1, 2, 5 or 200 monks.
Ok in this situation it makes sense that it’s a nerf, but is that a relevant one? I mean if you waste all your monks’ faith on one scout you let yourself open to the next ones…
I don’t really get the point of only making monks. At least in the Arena games I’ve played so far, the relics are guarded by spears, scouts or a bunch of archers patrolling. Going full monks is asking for trouble. But hey if that’s how you like to play, go for it! 
Maybe you just need to make 1 or 2 spears to go with the monks! Unless you’re planning to win without making any military buildings, which again is asking for trouble but idk, i’m not that much into monks.
Btw you can pick Slavs and get the Castle tech, that should help a little bit! xD
Also wait isn’t that a buff to that one mechanic where you can “charge” a monk’s conversion by starting to convert one unit then switch to another? It means you can charge your conversion on a scout for a while then switch to another unit to get an insta convert even more reliably
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The idea is to not build any military buildings besides monasteries and siege workshop. Other building you convert from enemy. Relics are nice to have but not the priority. Also, almost no eco, only some on wood and everything else basically on gold. So no castle either.
You only guarantee an insta conversion at the 10th vululu. So you can do 9 vululus on a scout and then insta-convert any other unit, but you would be better off just going for the second unit from the begining, which means you can convert it at the 4th vululu.
Also, it’s a buff the same way deleting your TC at the begining of the game is a buff, because you learn how to play being down a full TC compared to enemy, so you end up becoming a better player. WTF is this logic?
Well switching conversions has benefits, while deleting your TC has no benefit. And there is no need to spend 8 vululus on a scout for the insta conversion to work, you might spend 4 wololos on the scout then switching over to the knight. Also think of all the situations where it’s not mono scouts but a mix of units.
Wtf is this bs about LuL
You know that the 4th vululu conversion had a 1% chance or something stupid low like that ???
So to get that consistently you would indeed need 100 monks or insane luck … And that’s what they changed. Having a potential 1v1 monk Vs it’s hard counter Scout and getting a conversion that isn’t really supposed to happen.
Also if you waste 100 monks on 1 scout good luck surviving the other 50+ killing your monks till the faith is recharged … Unless it’s imp and you have theocracy. But with 100 in imp this change will have zero overall affect on your game as 1 insta conversion out of 100 isn’t worth anything …
And if you convert a knight full to 2/3rd distance it’s a 90% chance to get the conversion as well as 100% Vs slow ■■■■ eles. If you have 2 ok ofc you kill the monk but lose both knights/Ele as one is converted and kills the other anyway. So no matter your loss 
3 Likes
No that’s the point of making monks vs knights. Especially in low numbers monks are super effective 1v1. Unless you mess up and the knight is like 2 tiles away you’ll get a conversion most of the time. At monks max range you are pretty much guaranteed a conversion.
Sure bc after one elephant is converted you’re out of faith and the remaining elephant kills the monk but who cares about the monk loss.
Well the idea of a monk rush is to go like 2 min earlier to castle age than opponent and build several monastries so that you have the numbers advantage. If executed well that strat can beat scouts without any spears addition.
@Greatlatius And the new min conversion time won’t change that. I mean oftentimes as the scout player has to tech into heresy to be able to engage with scouts. Smushes still will work. And even if it some point later in the game you will need a rax for couple of spears when your opponent has good number of scouts so be it.
3 Likes
Just bind monks to qwertyuiop, load them with pinky on ctrl and thumb glide qwertyuiop while ctrl clicking the monk portraits for however many you wish to have on a single hotkey before binding the remaining to another and repeat.
Select all monks and start converting the closest scout followed by rapidly switching hotkeys and selecting a new target - if only one scout, use one monk to convert and micro the other monks away and heal the one monk with the rest of the monks, or if chasing the main monk group, just heal whichever is being attacked until the scout is converted.
The silver lining here is that you have more time to individually wololo different units from each hotkey instead of accidentally losing mass faith too quickly when starting the entire group on the closest unit to start the monk seconds for all monks.
To a degree, this would be an interesting feature vs all units, but at the same time 4 to 8 as the minimum for all units may be a bit much.
If you don’t have much faith in the healing rate of regular monks, go for byzantines for +100% heal speed, a single monk is worth 3 if healing alone, additional monks worth half, 1 monk is worth a full monk and two half monks, adding in further monks with the 100% heal speed bonus increases the normal 50% even more, so additional byzantine monks healing a single unit together are worth a normal monk’s worth of healing each. With that in mind, it’s powerful.
Even just having a byzantine ally adds this power to you
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Youre complaining about competitive ranked play being rebalanced? The choice is yours - you can always go to lobby and play closed maps only. If you cant adapt your strategies to subtle rebalance - that lack of skill should reflect in your ELO.
Patch is not bad, they only missed the opportunity to fix WW and nerf a little more the housite wagon.
Monks can charge their conversion on other units and then insta convert whatever unit, even lc, so i am sorry but smush is still viable, what was removed was the weakness for sc line vs monks and randomness in conversion being fixed for the counter units.
The arabia map, well even if i hate no wood maps, i was getting annoyed of facing guys walled min 8 and playing too much defensive to turtle the game to late imperial.
I mean I tend to keep my base more or less open to ensure the opponent can ‘attempt’ an offensive while small walling+tower camps which often goes to imperial, and I turtle, but it’s fun to combat what the opponents come up with, turtling isn’t a bad thing, and if given the right mindset it’s fun for both sides of the coin. Tho I admit I’ve come across quite a few salty bois as of late in the 1100’s
That’s every single patch. It will make some happy and some unhappy. I’m 100% sure this patch made majority of the player base happy.
Because some counters does work that way. 2 Huskarls can kill 5 xbow any day.
Not all the time. Monks have higher speed until Mahout is researched. So you can just run away with your monk after the conversion.
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Black Forest and Arena shall someday have more meta variety than Arabia with continuing walling nerfs LOL.
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