Do puma spearman get more range after upgrades?

Every pike does but I dont see info about it on puma UI, techs, wiki or app

short answer no, only euro and china gets the range increase

the range upgrade is tied to the vet and guard techs so you can hover over it to see if it does that or now

I think the range buff is to distinguish longer pike from shorter spear.

So europeans, who get arsenal and halberdiers, get it…nice and fair…

native spearman are already much better then pike in the base stats can upgrade to guard without weird gimmicks

both spearman can also get to like 6 speed and the incan one gets -20% rof so think about it as the have pike x halb x rods hybrids

edit: natives also get bonus from the plaza so they get decent stats by the end


Pikes and Quiangs have a base damage of 8 and 7 respectively, Pumas have a base damage of 12 and Plumes have 13 which is a huge difference especially for upgrades, they also have 20 % melee resist instead of 10 % for Euro Pikes and Quiangs by default. Most euro civs never upgrade past Veteran Pikes and even if you do, Imperial Pikes and Quiangs still don’t have high damage against anything but cav and light infantry, if you go for attack dance, Pumas and Plumes get ridiculous amounts of damage for a pike unit which makes them able to fight most units semi efficiently, where pikes would do almost nothing, if you added range to that, they’d be extremely op.


So another general buff but for azzys, as always. Stop talking about plaza as excuse to nerf units. These civs need 15 villagers to get max effect, of course they have to be strong after it.

Also, remember that they are more expensive than actual pikes while azzys have a lesser eco: no eco theory and no factories


Warrior priests are the factories, but in a different way. 10 WP are like 20 vills on plaza without taking 20 pop space. Even better than factory.

They arent. Also their card is a meme, just 2 more villagers at plaza. Again, 15 villagers are needed to work at plaza while:

  • Native estates have less techs than european ones.

  • Not economic theory.

  • There is not slots in fortress age for evey temple card.

  • Their actual sustitute for factories, coin crates, come slower than any other (again, another general buff but for aztecs).

About stats, spanish tercios arent that far as they have missionaries, same armour + 10% range one and more HP while are trained faster.

I mean technically the Xolotl Support card is their eco-theory card, it is noticeable that their eco cards are only for mills and estates.

I wouldn’t mind if they have something like the hausa card that gives wood when gathering at mills and estates

Aztecs has fastest farming rate. All nat civs farm is really good, they hunt fastest too. Just coin collection is not good

You don’t need 15 vills on plaza. Just 10 WP on that it works like 20 vills. You dont have to max out the 25 slots to work. 20 vill equivalent of WPs are good enough

Then, whats the point of getting a stronger plaza, which is the main bonus of the civ, if you arent going to use it??

If you do that the others natives get a stronger effect while get arsenal upgrades and higher base stat units.

I did a topic about this some time ago: Fixing Unfair balance of Native American Civs and this comment about aztec situation.

I know, but it does the same than chinampa plus villagers that you have to pay. Plus being in age III.
Maybe it could boost woodcutting too. Idk

Devs already nerfed fertility and town dances (suppousedly caused by stronger plaza after new card) hurting booming and turtling. But then, they nerfed back the plaza without reverting changes like HP age up or travois card HP effect