Do we need bans in ranked?

Age of Empires IV IV - Discussion
21

Fast castle against Zhu Xi rush? You cannot focus on fast castle while the other player is doing an all in.

Which league are you in? Silver? Then you must know that silver is no way conqueror, while you say you can kill easy Jeanne D’arc in a fight, no way you will kill her in conqueror level neither no way you can do a fast castle vs a Zhu Xi all in.:sweat_smile: (And I assume you are talking about lvl 2 Jeanne, because level 3 is totally unkillable).

You people really need to stop saying things like “you cannot rely on statistics because the sample is not big enough”. Man, even professionals are saying that Zhu Xi zhu ge rush is OP and Jeanne are freaking overtuned.

I don’t even need to give my own appreciation of this fact when the numbers and the professionals are pointing the same.

As I said: if a tactic is too easy to do and too effective, then it’s broken.

An example: they nerfed hard town centers because for some civs, like abbasid, was too easy to just put 3 TC’s boom and defend at the same time. Right now you simply can’t do this. It was broken, so it got nerfed. And I know what I’m saying since I’m main Abbasid, and in the past I would just make 3 TC in every game and won a lot just doing this.

By the way, this is offtopic, so I won’t reply to any other post about this.

Yep, the best solution always is to balance the civs, but if they do in 1 week, max 2 weeks. They dropped a balance patch where they nerfed japanese (really hard, to be honest) and nerfed some aspects of bizantines (hello?).

But, if you have to play for near a whole season against unbalanced civs…

23

We are getting a new balance patch in January, it’s not like it’s a whole season. (Part of the issue is this dropped before the holiday season).

While the Byzantine changes were interesting to say the least, their performance has gone up a lot this patch (probably people learning them better) and are actually in a pretty reasonable place. (A civ that complex will never have 50% winrate at low-mid levels, similar to China). I also think people heavily slept on the 50 extra starting gold, so I’m not even certain the overall patch was really a Byzantine nerf.

2 Likes
24

The funny thing ist the balance patch said that they nerfed the red palace of Jeanne to 9,5 range so that bombards can kill it but I still has 10 range.

Jd is not a underwhelming French when jd dies, because her knights are only ~100 food and u can mass them faster then French it feels like. U just need more on gold, less on food. Also the knights don’t die as fast as from French because of jds heal ability. So even when she dies u have more knights then French. Otherwise tell me why she has a ~65% win rate against French in conq.

I would say just let her level up when u go to the next age. That would solve so many problems.

The zhu ge nu problem is the same with most archers. If u get a decent mass they even kill cav easy. The dmg in feudal from them is like longbow dmg against heavy cav but u can mass them faster.

25

While her knights are cheaper, French will have more resources. Also once French builds a keep, they also get cheaper knights. If Jeanne was a non-combat unit that only provided consecrate, the civ would be worse than French.

Pretty sure the Red Palace being released as the old French Red Palace was an accident.

Jeanne is good against French because her power as a combat unit and slight knight advantage in feudal snowballs because French is a civ that cannot afford to fall behind in knights in feudal.

The French eco boost also needs time to kick in and ramp past Jeanne’s which is not very likely. The fact that French is a better 2TC civ also doesn’t matter with the current meta and map pool

26

Jeanne d’arc’s primary purpose, at least in team games, appears to be murdering villagers. She is an unstoppable raiding force and is heavily incentivized to do so. It seems rather culturally insensitive to make a Saint of a major religion have this purpose.

27

You’ve to take Christmas’s and new years eve around the corner, and that will probably effect when the patch comes after that.

1 Like
28

About the bans in ranked, I would say no.

Many people in ranked start playing the civ that they like the most and have experience with and over time, learning from victories and defeats, they specialize in it and then in others with which certain maps work better. If we impose bans, or even worse, if these are done against a civ that exists with the idea of being broken or very strong this season, the people who played that civ will be disappointed in playing ranked, or even in protest They could drop out of the game if they are forced to play with a civ they don’t want.

In fact in League of Legends (A game with a casino business model that I disapprove of and which I managed to get out of), like one of my favorite champions, “Ramus”, was never popular enough to get banned per game , the bans didn’t bother me much. But if he had been (popular), like Rengar or KhaZis, it would have bothered me a lot. We must also consider that there were 5vs5 team games, and some synergies per patch were popular among champions, so bans were made to screw up those synergies… although in practice this also screwed up the games, since by not Being able to play what you want also weighed on your game performance, and in the end it only contributed to the bad atmosphere of people continually insulting each other and reporting between games. Even in some events, some players would ban champions of the same ones you had to play with just to annoy those who wanted to get prizes, it was quite a mess.

Another thing is that in public AoEIV tournaments there are map bans, or choosing between several predetermined civs before a series of several 1vs1 duels, for “Publicity”, because having both players play the same civ, 5 duels in a row would not attract much attention. public attention.

I would say that Joan D’Arc’s main advantage against his father’s Civ, the French, is that aside from economic bonuses, the French “lack” many of the military advantages that Joan offers:

  • An extra hero,
  • Two unique special counter units (Joan Raiders, Joan Champions),
  • Juana’s final ability gives her either a free cannon every so often, or a special boosted unit that can be from a super-Knight, or a super-crossbowman.

In the military part, that does not happen in other civ variants with the civ parents of it. The Chinese have different military bonuses (More HP on Ming vs More Attack on Ming), in addition to handcanonners with more range and the famous Fire Lancers, who were in fact so strong that they nerfed their bonus against buildings in successive updates, in fact to differentiate them from their variant, they might have.

I suggested in other posts that rather than only nerfing Juana a little, we had to see why other civs of hers lost to her more than to the French.

  • They could well give the French some extra unique units for Imperial that differ from Juana, like the Scottish Guard, the Swiss Hundred, or even mercenary mechanic with less option (Genoese Crossbowman, Swiss Pikeman, Templar Knight, Scottish Guard, etc). At theas the model of two of the mercenaries that I suggest are in the campaign.
29

It’s a 50 starting stone. And overall it is a nerf. No doubt about it. 30 to 10 triumph killed the slight doubt that Bizantines ever were op. They are now standard level. The only problem is that their difficulty is not really that worth when you can just grab French and spam Cavalry with less hassle.

30

Ok, let’s do this. Go ahead and only play Jean of Arc and Zhu Xi in ranked. I dare you go to up to Conqueror and send me the screenshot.

If they are soo good, then you should have no problem, right? Show me you are right by doing that.

Take advantage of the bug right now…

1 Like
31

I was already in conqueror and I can get again without using them, so what is going to prove that?

By the way, this doesn’t work like this. If they were super mega overpowered, there’s no way a gold or a platinum can reach conqueror just because a civ is overpowered. I can win a gold or a plat being afk for the first minutes.

Using civs overtuned just makes easier win, but at your level. If your level is say platinum, then you will find easier to win other platinums with these civs.

32

No. If they are so strong like you are saying they are, then players no matter the level should climb the ladder rather easily. That’s a fact.

If you are in Conqueror and you are having a bad time playing Zhu xi or Joan of arc, then you are proof of what Beasty said about how this game’s ladder system is grossly exagerating players real Elo.

Sorry but it’s the true.

33

I believe it is necessary.
But, only after at least diamond.
People can’t even master single civ enough below this level, give them bans too early might cause many person confused.

34

Well, maybe, but it is ranked by the way. I think even in low leagues can be interesant. It’s a way to encourage people learn more civs.

35

I noticed those are currently the two most used civs