Do we need Goth civ rework?

Write all your “yes” and “no”.

Small buffs, sure. Total rework, probably not. If you just want yes/no answers, just put a poll.

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No.

Also a poll is much better if you want to just see the results

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what i think we need is a militia-line rework of some sort. that would indirectly help goths the most, but all other supposed infantry civ

There is no poll i need, just your thouts on it.

I think we need to rebalane most stuff but the bonuses themselves could stay

They need more time windows, or a little more bonus on that hunting bonus.
Or people need to play them more heavily early in the game, by playing way more agressive. And really pull out that castle age time zone.
Because there is only potential by heavily hunting for fast castle and huskarl raiding/spam.
If that window is broken then they become the most random civ in existence, they always had everything at their disposal with many options. But nothing really has bonusses except infantry. But ranked and team games are all about archers and cavalry. So there isn’t really a place for them, unless you can get your huskarls to use. And keep a macro focus to raid and do serious damage. So yea it takes skill to play Goths properly.

It’s the lategame where Goths shine, they just have to survive the early game, and then they can spam infantry, which is their big selling point.

No

characters…

A while back when I wanted to mod (but didn’t realize how much harder it was) I wanted a Romano Gothic civ.

It can sometimes get a bit bland when ultimately their answer to everything is infantry of some sort…

Nah, this has already been tried via supplies, free tracking, arson, and the longswordsmen buff. Supplies tech actually hurt Goths the most, since gave most other infantry civs a “Goth Lite” discount bonus and means the Goth militia line no longer cost-effectively beats that of “super-infantry civs” (Japanese, Burmese, or civs with strong Imp infantry techs).

Used to be. Before supplies and the proliferation of super-infantry civs. Nowadays, unless up against an archer civ, I think of Aztecs, Burmese, Japanese, Slavs, Dravidians, Teutons, maybe even Vikings as better versions of Goths in mid-late Imp (i.e. they are better infantry civs with better ecos and more flexibility to boot - except Dravidians). Goths have a short powerspike in early imp, but other civs can largely nullify that by just adding a few more barracks.

If I were to “fix” Goths, I would keep their infantry focus, both give them something to make them a little more competitive in the late game. Possibly change their +10 pop to +7% pop and/or give them plate mail (but -2 PA from Elite Huskarl)

exactly

The problem is twofold though, infantry civs hard counter them in the late game, but a lot of other civs simply out eco them earlier in the game (mayans is the easy go to example)

so aside from giving goths a better counter to infantry (the sub par champ isnt good enough and HC take too long to mass) they need to more advantages sooner

i know its a weird one, but i wonder how the game could change if they increased the gold cost on militia line, but reduced the food cost. making them more viable earlier (eagles are the easy example) but less punishing later. as compensation, 2HS (or even from LS) could get +1MA (or even more) since the unit will be less viable later in the game due to gold cost, at least make it better in certain situations

No. It’s a bad civ at top level play, but I like the appeal of the Goths. Not all civs have to be competitive. Some just have to have a fun concept. And the Goths clearly have.

a total rework? the answer would be no.

they just need a small change to their eco bonus in early game and maybe nerf infantry spam in late game a bit.

No, I don’t think Goths need to be reworked completely.

But here is my constructive suggestion (that I posted in another discussion like half a year ago)
Instead of “Loom is researched instantly” they get
“Town Center technologies are researched 100% faster” (Loom, Wheelbarrow, Hand Cart, Town Watch, Town Patrol)

  • better eco (faster Wheelbarrow & Hand Cart) → more viable options, especially in the midgame
  • better defense (faster Town Watch)
  • less of a laming identity (no more instant Loom)
  • getting rid of one of those much disliked “instant bonuses”

With that Perfusion might have to be changed a little bit. I suggest either nerf it to something like 50%/66%/80%, or make it a little bit more expensive and slower to research, otherwise the Infantry spam would get out of hand too quickly I think.

I think the biggest problem is that every player knows that the Goths are ultimately only worth using infantry, so it’s easy to come up with a countermeasure. In order to make the Goths more competitive, the devs used bonuses such as loom to encourage players to launch fierce offensives in the dark ages, making the community’s experience with the Goths even worse.

I’d rather give them the basic stone wall instead of the loom bonus to help them through the helpless early game. Some traditions do not necessarily have to be continued, especially the Cumans also feature the lack of stone walls. Giving cavalry plate armor also helps to make the strategy more flexible, even with the possibility of losing the hussars it’ll be a good deal.