A Dock is 150 Wood second town center available in Age 1. Fish gathering rates are also the best food source in the game. Forces you to go fish economy.
Should we increase Dock cost to something more reasonable - like 250 Wood + 50 Stone?
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Lol, no. Its fine as it is.
Why nerfing something that is equally avaliable to all civs?
It’s a player’s problem if the game is giving all the tools for boosting their economy and they choose not to do it
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Well, the dock itself is, but the water gameplay is not equal between civs. So that’s not really an argument. Fishing is also a very good long term investment (especially with the recharging deep sea fish) and water dominant players (and civs) will be able to keep using it through all stages of a match.
Do I have equal options on land? If so, please tell me. I cannot see any that can compete with fishing ships.
Not sure about the exact numbers, but introducing stone sounds like a good option, since it takes away from other stone projects later on (additional TCs) and forces the player to send vils to stone at some point. Maybe earlier than otherwise necessary (a bit like the tower <-> tc relationship in AOE2).
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The cost of the dock is very good now. You can’t increase the cost of the dock because you hate naval battles, just like you hate the knight and want to increase the cost of the Stable.
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Once hulk gets nerfed then water will be.
Well if you don’t want to make fishing ships that is on you, don’t come complain on the forums when the game is giving you every tool to not fall behind in eco.
Guess what, let’s nerf military units because I dont want to make them early but I will loose if my oponent does, or even better, let’s nerf castle age because if I want to stay feudal and my oponent ages up I loose.
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Really, that is your answer? Spurting random bs?
Maybe you should stay away from the forums if you cannot comprehend the topics talked about.
Map spawns are rarely fair. Though that’s not just with fishing.
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Spurting random bs is asking to nerf something just because you are too lazy to adapt and take advantage of it
This is a matter of balancing map spawns, not get rid of fishing
Nobody wants to “get rid of fishing” or nerf it because they “hate water gameplay”. Who is so dense to think that?
The fun in an RTS comes from the choice. How to adapt to a map to make the best out of it, sure, but when the options are not equal, that choice is not a real choice anymore. Land food sources are harder to gather and choosing them makes it harder for you to compete, without any benefit (if you see one, tell us). If you’re presented choices that should be equal, but handicap yourself in the moment you choose one over the other, that’s bad design.
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Well, there are still choices.
You can burn dock down with very early aggression, mongols can do it on age1 in fact is suicide to go for dock in certain maps against them, Rus have the option to do that too with scouts. You can also put towers near their docks in certain maps
You can go for hard rush.
You can put a second tc up and play the longer game, but you do have to hold off their timing first. Fishing in ponds and small lakes becomes less effective the longer the game goes.
This is how it is in ever age game, also fish eco is usually more vulnerable cause you cant just move your dock to another spot.
Apart from mongols, is there any other building that you can move to a different spot?
Nope, it is a mechanic unique to mongols (and they can’t move docks)
Docks have to be increased in cost, maybe 300w or land has to be given better chances maybe decrease the price of town centers?
Right now water is not equal in any way. French is the king of water and whenever there is a small pond map you are forced to water or you lose game. If water was not this dominant you could play anything else and still have success but this is not the case on water maps.
One of the only water maps that is balanced is Black forest due to both players having their own ponds and less likely to fight this small pond. Where as if you have to fight water when it is not equal at all it becomes a problem and It then gives too much priority over land.
Either nerf docks or give land better options through increased food gather ratio, Cheaper farms? Cheaper Town centers?
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This is a case of nerfing france on water maps not nerfing fishing itself. And the nerf to hulks is coming and hopefully it will put civs on a balanced ground when it comes to water.
This is not like aoe3, all civs have access to 150w docks, all civs pay the same for fishing boats and they can all take advantage of a good early fishing economy.
They shouldn’t nerf a mechanic just because someone doesn’t like taking water or is “forced” to go water, it’s ridiculous. It’s like me saying to nerf all military units because if I don’t make them and my oppnent does he wins.
There are other options apart from fishing yourself. One of them is go early spearman and burn the oponent dock down if you scout it on time and he will loose all the investment he put on it.
It is not, the way you’re saying is not right, Right now we are putting out facts and what you’re saying is not happening, There is not a civ with a unit so superior in feudal that you get utterly destroyed without any possible answer. Land play for most civs is relatively close and you can find answers to most land strats
Unlike The hulks from French There is literally 0 answer and while yes there is patch coming it is a current fact we are facing and saying it is the same if I said this, It is clearly not.
Great option, Now if the French player also opens spearmen to defend his dock and even places a tower. The moment he reaches feudal you auto lose. Because there is no answer.
Your option should have a good concept behind it and a great outcome. Now I’m not denying it is a good option you can do it when there is not a French civ on the matchup but this suggestion goes away when there is French and it is on the hands of a good player
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Water play is also relatively close with exception from france and the devs already stated that they will get a nerf next patch so water balance shouldn’t be an issue.
As I said on my previous post it’s a matter of nerfing the French on water not nerfing fishing and docks.
You can’t nerf a whole mechanic when all you need is nerf one unit
When building a dock is pretty much an auto-win against not building a dock, its overpowered.
Very simple imho.
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Not when all civs can build a dock for the same price.
So if my oponent makes units and I don’t then units are overpowered because if I don’t make them I loose?
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