Does Archer play have too many advantages?

not a problem anymore. blizzard has made it clear in the past couple expacs that ranged are the bread winners for the most part.

I havent played wow for ages. I just remember there was Always an arms race between melee and ranged which ultimately ended up ruining the game.

Not in Portugal!!!

Crossbow supreme! :grin:

Because Viper is completely detached from the regular ELO ladder player, in terms of opponents he faces and his expectations of balance.

He simply plays the game at a different level.

Still cannot beat my broad shiled.

Also, that is a fantasy crossbow, this is what a Chu Ko Nu actually looked like:

And they traded penetrating power for continuous fire, which made them only useful against Light Infantry and Light Cavalry. Any experience chinese general would use their heavier crossbow marksmen against fully armoured opponents, not the Chu Ko Nus.

Well if that’s a real chu ko nu then this is what a real huskarl looks like. You can see his sword on his right hip:

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This is even more funny when all those civs don’t have the Arbalest upgrade, except for Khmers who are lacking Thumbring.

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Archer-line is borderline OP if you ask me.

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Then why the top 7 civs have below average archer-line?

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A lot of them still go for archer line till late Castle age even if they are Infantry civs or Cavalry civs.

On the contrary I don’t see any Foot Archer civs routinely going for MAA and Longswords and ignore the Archer line , not any civ infact.

Archer unit line vs Infantry unit-line is a different thing than -Archer civ vs Infantry civ

I suppose it is a tendency with the masses to conflate these two things

It is expected for Archers to be picked in Feudal, since food is needed to keep producing villagers and advancing to the next Age, and Archers don’t cost food. Yet the top 7 civs are not Archers civs, and in fact have below average archer-line.

So what happened?

So given that logic, civilizations with good archer-line, or even better, specific bonus and techs for archers, should be able to snowball from their Feudal Archers and win, right?

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its almost as if archers are by far stronger then every other option available in feudal age because they have more power then everything except M@A and don’t cost food which means you can save for castle age.

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Not just all of Feudal age, In castle age too, it’s crossbows all the way no matter of you’re a Infantry civor a Siege civ or whatever, and few knights there in the mix for the cav civs

No I meant all the way across the Castle age too. Crossbows are the core of the army for all Infantry civs, all Naval civs and some cav civs too

except i debunked this already, but nice try. just because you perpetuate a lie does not make it true.

what else are infantry civs supposed to go for? pikes who are only good against cavalry and being a meat shield? they already do that as well? longswords? anti trash unit, not a power unit? unique unit? usually comes out too late.

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Almost all civs do crossbows a majority of the time till early Castle. Then some civs diverge into Knights
But even then, half the covs in the game continue to do crossbows toll late castle age
And atleast 12 civs do the arbalests a majority of the time

again debunked your list already. but hey, keep spreading lies.
Britons, Byzantines, Chinese, Ethiopians, Incas, Italians, Japanese, Malay, Portuguese, Saracens, and Vikings. I count 11. and 4 of those are straight up foot archer civs, 2 Have bonuses that apply to foot archers, 2 Have no other options available to them, and 1 had another option available to them made better recently. and you ignore that all of them routinely mix in skirms and pikes, and obviously siege. but hey. keep pressing your agenda.
either way. 11 or 12. that is a full 1/3rd of civs going archers. seems balanced to me.

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Vietnamese, Koreans, Aztecs, Malians, Mayans

Rattans, War Wagons and Plumes are the ideal units, but can’t always afford Castles in Imp

Malians are a “Crossbow civilization” in the Castle Age because fast Ballistics. Arbalest with fast Chemistry can be viable in the early imperial age and we see it often, same with Aztecs, a civ with bracer but missing ring archer armor and thumb ring.

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He said 12 civs use arbs a majority of the time
I see vietnamese only using xbows till they get rattan going.
Koreans transition to war wagons.
Mayans go plumes.
Aztecs lack thumb ring and transition to skirms + eagles.
Malians transition to cavalry farimba or infantry

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the civs that don’t do xbows almost never get picked, so it’s basically 95% of games going xbow, especially in team games with position-picking

and with civ + position-picking, the baseline for balance is actually ethiopian/mayan/briton xbow, not regular civs’ xbows

like it doesn’t matter if bulgarians can’t make xbow or if byzantine xbow are fair because bulgarians and byzantine aren’t picked

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