Dravidians redsign ideas

[vigunsta]

@Zelley00

I fully disagree. Elephant archers are fine by themselves.

I guess @GentleEvening5 didn’t say that Elephant Archers are knights’ replacement. I agree with rest of your points. With horsey-archers, you can raid, kill villagers and flee from Skirmishers, and don’t have to face a huge loss if you lose them unlike Elephant Archers.

[vigunsta]

Ideas should be focused on Infantry and/or Archer Elephants; make these units work

Can’t agree more @AlphaCreator727 !

Dravidians is the only infantry civ that doesn’t get a useful infantry-focussed civ bonus or team bonus. Discounted Barracks tech bonus is not very useful. Sure, it helps you save resources, but only if you go on to produce Champions. It fools you in to thinking that you have saved plenty of recources, but in reality you are only saving half the resources each time you rearch the specific technology. So, you don’t start bearing any fruit from the time you start producing infantry.

And this is not like other infantry civs’ civ bonus where you can start bearing fruits right from early game. Eg: Japanese - faster attacking infantry, Celts - fast-moving infantry, Vikings - tanky infantry, Bulgarians - free Militia upgrades. Even Incas get Spearmen with +2 Line of Sight.

Dravidian infantry is just generic until you manage to research Wootzsteel, change my mind.

@AlphaCreator727

why do they have access to that building at this point?, even Incas and Aztecs have more options with a stable

Very true

[GentleEvening5]

@vigunsta

Dravidians is the only infantry civ that doesn’t get a useful infantry-focussed civ bonus or team bonus.

Yup! Lack of cavalry has to be made up by powerful infantry. “Medical corps” should be replaced by “Strike corps”.

Strike Corps: The effect of researched barrack technologies is doubled. Supplies, Squires and arson will have double the effect on their military units. It will make Militia line cheaper(30 food) and faster(1.08 tps), Pikes(1.2 tps) and Urumis faster(1.05 → 1.26) as well. The building attack bonus for all infantry(+2) helps against lack of siege engineers. This buffed up infantry is a good replacement for missing knights. With this change, Dravidians could overcome the absence of Knights and cavalry upgrades.

[vigunsta]

This is a really nice buff.

And do you like the current Team Bonus? If ‘no’, what would you suggest?

[GentleEvening5]

I feel its just about right. It could be used together with early wood bonus well.

[SMUM15236]

I think SOTL’s latest video will both add insult to the injuries as well as fuel to the fire.

1 Fact for Every AoE2 Civ (A-K)

[Pulikesi25]

@UpmostRook9474

Receive 10 wood for every existing Villager when hitting a new Age, rather than a fixed 200 wood.

Gigantic nerf. You NEVER have 20 vills on wood while hitting feudal or castle age. 100 or 150 extra wood in imperial age is almost insignificant compared to 100 less wood in feudal and castle ages.

@UpmostRook9474

To remake Urumi.
I would like to make it something like a Huskarl but anti melee.

• HP: 40 → 50 (elite)
• attack: 8 → 10
• armor: 7/0 → 10/0
• speed: 1.02 (or 1.2)
• Can always cause the trample damage, but the charge mechanic is used to dodge projectiles instead of giving extra attack.

An anti-melee gold infantry is a flawed design, more so when its 0 p.armor unit. To kill cavalry you have halberdiers and fight special infantry like eagles, ghilman, you have swordsman line. This type of a melee resistant or melee damaging infantry is simply not worth the investment especially when the civ has all ranged unit options to counter infantry.

@UpmostRook9474

Payanam can also make the elephants move faster, or make the elephants have a resource trickle when not during the battle animaiton.

what happens when that elephant gets converted?

@Zelley00

I fully disagree. Elephant archers are fine by themselves. They are just a very expensive pop efficient archer, so they are nice in late imperial games (especially closed maps team games), and very hard to justify in castle age, way worse than for cav archers.

This is fine, if like Battle elephants for ROR civs, they coexist with cavalry archers. Unfortunately they’ve been provided as a replacement for those civs. Its ok for Gurjaras because they don’t need that unit line but the other two struggle a lot.

@Zelley00

The “problem” of “new civs” is for me the lack of knights/camels/s.riders/eagles. So there is no problem with Gurjaras, only with Dravidians and Bengalis.

For low and mid ELOs, civs without good cavalry need a very very strong bonus to survive. Like Britons got extra range for xbows and Vikings got a strong mid game eco along with +2 knights.
Now imagine Dravidians with the Britons +1/+2 extra xbow range. The civ would be at least fine (not advocating for this specific change, it s just as example).

Exactly. They need like some crazy food bonus to propel them much far ahead of most civs and even ahead of some of the best eco civs to compensate for the heavy handicap.

@Zelley00

In the end, most people complained about archers and xbows being OP in open maps, but Spanish and Bulgarians are going much better than Begalis and Dravidians.

With the melee pathing improvements and xbow upgrade nerf, the archer line isn’t OP anymore but well balanced. But yes not having cavalry units is much worse than not having xbow upgrade.

[emarz4697]

@Pulikesi25

Gigantic nerf. You NEVER have 20 vills on wood while hitting feudal or castle age. 100 or 150 extra wood in imperial age is almost insignificant compared to 100 less wood in feudal and castle ages.

His comment says 10 for every villager, not every villager on wood. So 21 pop to feudal gives 200 wood. Having roughly 40 villagers when going to castle would give 400 wood. And going to imp can give much more.

[UpmostRook9474]

@Pulikesi25

An anti-melee gold infantry is a flawed design, more so when its 0 p.armor unit. To kill cavalry you have halberdiers and fight special infantry like eagles, ghilman, you have swordsman line. This type of a melee resistant or melee damaging infantry is simply not worth the investment especially when the civ has all ranged unit options to counter infantry.

Ideally that might be the case, but we can notice the struggle of the Dravidians against the cavalry. This is why many people wish they have a melee tank with decent speed.
0 PA is less of an issue in my opinion, since their charging bars will be used to dodge projectiles. Maybe changing to a bit more PA would also work.

@Pulikesi25

what happens when that elephant gets converted?

If Payanam provides speed improvements, the converted elephants will also have faster speeds, since the stat boosts are attached to the individual units.

If Payanam provides a trickle, the converted elephants will not generate resources, since the rationale behind this is that the civ receives resources per second based on the number of elephants that are not fighting. In other words, the effect is attached to the player itself, not the individual units, so there will be nothing special.

[vigunsta]

Can replace Medical Corps and Thirisadai, or let them stay as they are. The best thing would be is to move Medical Corps to civ bonus or buff it.

In the second part of that video series, Spirit of the Law says that El Dorado has nothing to do with Mayan Eagle Warriors getting +40 HP. The tech itself has nothing to do with Mayans in the first place.