The 25% firing elephant archers are not that good on Arabia. They are like a death ball game ending comp on closed maps. For closed maps, 25% faster firing does not matter at all. I wish the bonus was only for skirms and Dravidians had an archery range production bonus like britons for skirms alone.
Skirmishers are created and fire 25% faster
This will help to create 2 skirms in place of an elephant archer who are better than normal archer and almost as good as a cavalry archer in damage output. A double range can spam out skirms who are better than archers. These skirms can go on offense against opponent base skirm defense. The double benefit is all the gold mined can be used to create monks to defend home base from Knight raids. But the current 25% faster elephant archer in castle age has no such benefit. This is the problem with Dravidian civ design their bonuses are too spread out and single use to have any impact. It is just not possible to stack them.
Thanks @Pulikesi25. I like the discounted barracks idea. There was a tech proposed way back to replace the wood bonus and have cheaper buildings and castles to denote chola and pallava architectural heritage.
Military production buildings cost -20%
Barracks, archery ranges, stables, siege workshop, monastery, castle and dock are discounted by 20%. This bonus can work with the town center bonus to enable the same M@A rush into archers we currently see. It will also help put down a cheap castle earlier to defend the most vital area of the economy. This will be like a win condition to survive early castle age Knight spam. Then the civ can securely play out an imp strategy.
These 2 bonuses can be removed to make way for the new bonuses.
<REMOVE> Receive 200 wood when advancing to the next Age.
<REMOVE> Fishermen and Fishing Ships carry +15.
I mean, yeah I get what you mean but acting as its something subjective you can say “no I dont think bad cav is part of the civ identity” is just pedantic. Sure, all civs need changes until thet are viable. I dont disagree with that. I dont necesarily think late game raids is the spot that this civ needs to be buffed and I dislike the proposed solutions
Either way the cheaper siege is meant to make up for bad cav against enemy siege.
And? Hes sayimg that the civ historically had good eles, and Im pointing out thats what they have. Yes, battle eles currently arent meta but Dravidians have bonuses for them already and they would be pretty decent if generic ele archers were more viable. Either way pros seem to think thevunit isnt fully fihured out
Are you sure you read correctly?
This is how the Dravidian civ bonuses will be once the 2 new bonus and modified skirm bonus are implemented:
Civilization bonuses
* Town Center technologies including aging up costs -25% food.
* Military production buildings cost -20%.
* Barracks technologies cost -50%.
* Skirmishers are trained 25% faster and fire 25% faster too.
* Siege units cost -33% wood.
Team bonus
* Docks provide +5 population space.
If you can’t comprehend how good of a rush civ this will be on both land and water, maybe you should double check with a better player. There will not be a need to research medical corps. Just infantry push supported by Skirms will make it a 50% win-rate team in castle age during 25-50 min range.
I think we’re saying the same things but differently. I’m also not in favor of mediocre bonuses to weak units but feel that the civ needs much stronger bonuses before that to stay ahead to negate the lack of cavalry.
Cheap siege can’t make up for it. Slavs have had that bonus for quite sometime and they have good cavalry, redemption monks as well. In those very few situations where Dravidians are significantly faster to castle age, its going to help them end the game soon. Otherwise its an average bonus.
Tha’ts the problem - its never going to be viable. To make it viable, something drastically needs to be changed. They should be faster, cost much lower food or have higher base range and attack, and monks should need some additional tech to be able to convert elephants and that tech should be reasonably expensive. All of this should collectively happen for Elephant archers to become viable.
The unit has remained for a decade. Even units less than a year old have been widely used. If a unit is good, everyone uses them, if its average or situational you might not see it a lot but they’ll still be used sometimes. But if the unit is awful, no one will make it. That’s how some units are right now in the game. Flaming camels, Hussite wagons and elephant archers.
This is a civ which can totally justify useless stable, unique unit, missing important unit lines and subpar monks.
I think Urumi doesn’t need a big rework to turn it into a raiding unit. For example -
Cost 65f/20g → 75f/10g
Armor 1/0 → 0/1
And it will be okay in raiding. Charge attack reduced 12, 15 → 8, 10 to make it balanced.
Also I want to see Gambeson Champion becomes a raider for Dravidians. Maybe instead of arguing whether LC should get the regeneration, I think it will be best if Barracks units or at least militia line gets the regeneration.
I don’t think so. Raiding units need minimum 2 base pierce armour. But that’s for high HP units like knights. For infantry raiding units, you need minimum 3, like eagles. I mean, longswords get 2 pierce armour now with gambersons, and they are still not great raiding units. They aren’t great even if you increase their speed to 1.2.
I don’t think it is a good idea to rework urumi. You will have to nerf its melee attack a LOT to balance it, and make it more like ghulam or huskarl. And then you’ll have to increase pierce armour to 3. At that point, it might just be better to remove urumi, and replace it with a new unit.
Immediately after DOI, I proposed Urumi rework with 3PA. I guess we need to give up this and get used to current design. Let’s hope within a decade, Dravidians will be split into 3/4 civs and someone who has okay LC, will get Urumi, and this horrible stable civ will get a new raiding UU.
Since Urumi gold cost was not re-worked like other UU, it makes sense to give +1 pierce armour and make the base armour +1/+1. However this unit has to be modified to address weakness to Knights like Shotels are now.
If “Strike Corps” replaces Medical corps, then it is possible to have Gambersons champions as raiders.
If woots steel were a CASTLE AGE bonus, then there would be little need for a better raiding unit than “light cav”.
If they keep fiddling with the idea of slowness of this civ which makes it impossible to counter-raid opponent. It makes sense to have some special civ bonus building like “Temple” based on “Bakthi movement” of medieval age. This should be like a min-town center at half the cost which can produce monks as well as produce, garrison Villagers and drop off resources. But not shoot arrows.
Watching a couple of games afterwards has made me realize another issue here.
Siege Onager-Redemption block printing monk-support combo basically shuts down Dravidians completely in imperial age. Think about what dravidians can do to counter this? Their answer to onagers right now is bombard cannons. But bombard cannons are completely shut down by redemption-block printing monks, because dravs don’t get siege engineers. Monks are good against elephant archers too.
If dravs go for infantry, Onagers will shut that down. Elephant archers? Onagers and monks. Bombards? Monks. Now what? Scouts? without husbandry and bloodlines? I can’t think of any viable counter here, except raiding. Oh, did I say raiding? 11
I had to revive this thread after ragequitting a game today. It was a nomad team game, and one of the opponents got to castle age first, started pushing with like 3 mangonels and a scorpion, from near a TC. We had our TCs pretty close to begin with. Literally had no answer to that. The few units I made died to scorpions, or mangonels. Even battle elephants wouldn’t do the job, because getting its armour simply isn’t worth it, and a single monk would shut it down completely anyway. To be fair, I wasn’t in my best mental state, having been awake for like 20 hours. But the experience was simply horrible.
Dear devs, would it kill you to add something mobile to this civ? Or give monks redemption, and take away block printing? Or do I just need to give up on my favourite chonk archer civ?
I made enough posts on reddit and I can see so many well throughout bonuses in this forum as well. But it seems the devs have given up on this Civ.
It is an incorrect tech tree design for the civ to miss something so iconic such as Knights and not have a replacement like camel, Eagle or Ratha.
The civ is garbage on Arabia. So in contrast it should be useful on Arena like Bengalis. But they are not. They have no notable eco bonuses to play on land. A singe team bonus on water is enough. People argue they are good on nomad with water and islands. But give any civ 200 wood to make fire ships and the result will be obvious in feudal age itself.
Rather than begging like this, we should just quit and boycott this game completely. I will not be buying RoR and would suggest everyone to refrain from buying it.
@Pulikesi25 filtercoffee488 GentleEvening5 Zelley00 SMUM15236 made very good reads. In fact if these guys re-worked the civ, they would make it balanced better than the dev team. The devs stole @vigunsta idea of a 5% increased work rate for Romans which was flagged by community as OP for Dravidians. The romans workrate bonus comprising building, farming, fishing, foraging, hunting is 5 bonuses built into one. But Romans got 4 more civ bonuses on top of it. The devs don’t care to design civs anymore and are just churning out fan favorites.
I agree, after giving Bombard Cannon to Dravidians in 66692, I agree that devs is done with this civ.
Dravidians is quite good in team game close map. For those civ that have strongest infantry (champion win paladin in terms of gold, which are viking, japanese, Aztecs, Dravidians who bascially win all melee fight) only Dravidians get BBC and in closed map BBC cam kill all archer with proper position. It kind of like Bohemians that those civ almost useless in open map but actually quite strong in closed map.
In a way I think Dravidians are better suited for open maps since they can leverage the wood bonus for a very aggressive rush (and ideally followed by cheap Siege for aggressive Castle age). Lacking Siege Engineers is rather painful when you go against a civ with SE and also has SO. Even worse if the opponent has bombards (with SE especially).
I don’t mind Dravidians getting Redemption, after all - the civ design is meant to be similar to other slow pushing civs like Teutons, Bohemians, etc, who all have usable monks. And this won’t go against the intended civ design for them anyway. Monks are, after all, slow (and they lack Fervor).
It’s Nomad, aren’t Guard towers an expected answer? Don’t know if you had any stone you could ##### ### Dravidians can turtle relatively well.
Their TB is considered too OP in TG water maps and a must pick in that particular setting. Maybe this one can be changed into Scout cavalry line +3 attack bonus vs siege.
This might work tbh. Give elephant archers +1 damage against siege or something.
The problem with ele archers is the one with all archers, they do Pierce damage and need to be en masse.
3 knights would have done the job in the situation I was ### ### 3 elephant archers would take too much time, and elephant archers cannot exploit range limitation of siege.
I don’t think this would work tbh. First, Dravidians would be extremely unfocused with this. They would have a lot of jumbled and random bonuses, with no real focus. Second, this requires too much investment in units which otherwise aren’t really useful. Give bloodlines and husbandry, and this would be fine. Lastly, this might be too good of a team bonus in unexpected places. Hussars are already used against siege a LOT, and this might be too much in a Lithuanian or pole ally.
But also, removing the water bonus would mean dravs have nothing on water except for that one eco bonus. They wouldn’t be a naval civ at that point.
Replacing the bonus is fine, but it should be a water bonus.
I went on the offensive first, by tower rushing with the extra wood. A mangonel can easily take down towers, as long as a vil repairs it.
