This just means they die a tad slower, but when Fire ships came atop them they are screwed anyway
You asked “what is a cost efficient answer here?” And i gave you one. I think Fire ships, not even fast Fire ships, will be a cost efficient answer to them
Romans are not part of ranked. They were designed as a full Singleplayer / unranked Civ. That already tells us that they properly are op without furder balancing. So what’s the point?
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The lack of demo ship is then because the Romans have a tanky navy. Making them less able of countering fire ships.
They die 25% slower. And they will have better survival rate due to 1MA and 10% faster speed. They are screwed but not as much as CG, in fact significantly better. And that’s the point.
He asked for a counter of ship combo - Dromon + Galleon of Romans (You can exclude rest 3 civs).
They are on the ranked now.
I get that. But this doesn’t answer to the point I’m making.
Clearly Dromon used to be the UU of Romans and hence this OP and bug stats. And pretty sure their stats didn’t change after the decision changed to a regional unit. Byzantines Dromon with 25% faster firing rate will also be far better than Spanish CG in water.
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Not at release. Only with a following update. So no they’re not. But yes they will be, but I guess thry will be rebalanced? Otherwise there is no reason to delay?
Dromons can be built by Byzantines too though.
Dromon is coming with RoR release though. So it is relevant to discuss their balance.
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Balance is good enough for release. Only in combination with other strong naval units/bonuses there might be a problem.
if you take a look on turtles. 1v1 they beat every other ship? Nobody thinks they are op same with persian war elephants, they beat every single other land unit and still hardly anyone uses them.
Yeah, but how are your fire ships going to get to them? This is like saying “I play only rams, and siege onagers are screwed when I get to them”. True, I guess. If you get close, your rams will destroy those pesky onagers.
Did you only read that one sentence? Read the paragraph right above it. Man, why do I even bother writing out the whole thing if you are going to respond to one out of context line.
Exactly. Dromons have to be balanced on release, for all the civs that get them. They can take their time with Romans.
Can you think of the difference here? Turtles are extremely slow, and they don’t have a splash like Dromons do. It’s the difference between bombard cannons and onagers. War ele is a melee unit, and the dynamic is completely different there. They are highly vulnerable to monks on land, and melee units will keep losing HP when they are fighting. That’s a huge downside. You either heal them, or lose the unit. Dromons on the other hand are safe behind your forward galley line.
I don’t think Dromons are op. They are more expensive than most other ships and enemy ships can dodge the shots with micro.
Goths and Huns will not be too strong on water because of them. Byzantines lose Elite Cannon Galleons, so it is not even clear if it is a buff for them. Romans overall are unknown balance-wise but it all seems balancable.
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I think drops should be more costly not less expensive that cannon galleons. That will probably fix them
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Are they better then Elite Cannon Galleons though?
You lose a lot of range, which means a lot less buildings will be in range of your fleet. In a lot of situations a Dromon is a downgrade form an Elite Cannon Galleon.
3 range can make a huge difference.
And Elite Cannon Galleons do a lot more damage against buildings too.
There only three buildings which will be out of your range. Teutonic castle, Korean keeps and Turkish bombard towers.
Out of 42(43 with romans) civs, that’s 3 situations where they are worse.
Dromons on the other hand are good against all ships except caravels and turtle ships as long as you have meat shield in front. That’s 40(41) situations where they are better. Also, those buildings can only cover so much area. Guess what can move around and actually decide naval battles? Ships. The things that cannon galleons quickly die to.
That lower damage against buildings is utterly pointless because if you can hold the water, you will take the building soon enough.
Oh, and dromons are better against land units, and faster, and cheaper than ECGs.
So yes, I’ll take Dromons over Elite cannon galleons any day.
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I wasn’t thinking about buildings that can shoot back.
Just any building that is more then 12 tiles away from the shore.
Having a longer range means you can cause more damage on land.
At the point this becomes relevant, you already won.
Dronos need no chensitry no elite upgrade are cheaper, faster, much stronger against ships and land units. What do I need the range for when I can use these in sea battles to great effect and then bombard the shires much better then losing sea battle with cannon galleons and then get my ships sunk
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At the point this becomes relevant, you already won.
Not true. It can easily happen that one player has water control and the other player made a successful landing. For example.
This can be quite important on hybrid maps.
On a real Island map it shouldn’t make too much of a difference.
We’ll have to see how well they perform with and against micro first before judging them.
That’s another win for Dromons. Why? Because they are far better against units than Cannon Galleons are.
Sure, there might be a few buildings that you miss out because they lie in that narrow belt between 12 and 15. But I can just make some halbs (or camels) and push with trebs or bombards with help from dromons. You should really watch those videos. These things are really good against bunched up units.
This thread is for speculation based on information that is available through those videos (and other sources if you can find them). If you just want to wait, that’s totally fine. But that’s not the point of this thread.
There is a few things that need to be tested:
- How high is the impact of the damage fall off? The Mangonel line basically never does full damage against units while the Cannon Galleon has no damage fall off.
- They have longer range then Mangonels so their projectiles fly longer which makes them easier to dodge in theory.
- How easy is it to micro against them with Galleons?
- Can you midigate the AoE damage by spread formation?
- With same resources is it even worth it to replace Galleons with Dromons especially if you only look at Gold. They cost 5x as much Gold and nearly 2x Wood. They even cost 2.5x as much Gold then Thirisadai.
My guess is that the Dromon will be pretty good unless Gold runs out.
I have only seen equal number comparisons against other ships and not equal resources, or mixed navies with equal resources.
Replacing 3 Galleons with one Dromon doesn’t seem like it’s worth it unless you run out of population.