coming from the guy who said they had champions, this is hilarious.
yeah, you donât play militia line with them anyways so who cares.
I focus more on working strats than useless information.
and yet you literally said this
then maybe you should propose changes to civs unless you know what youâre talking about, because clearly youâre spreading bad information mr 100 hp champs. which causes confusion and leads to situations where people make bad decisions because of said bad information.
by the way how can you propose changes if you donât know what civs have available, and how can you sit there and say stuff like âwell 100 hp champs are cost effectiveâ and then turn around and say that you âFocus more on working strats than useless informationâ.
I feel like it should be a rule that you have to at least supply some kind of justification for changes on this forum. Suggesting arbitrary changes like the El Dorado one just seems irrational.
What specifically is wrong/flawed with the current iteration? You just donât like that it only affects eagles?
No, we see the prob that the only counter to it is champ which is odd and also several civs donât get it FU. There are some special unit comps and UU which can counter it, too, but they are usually also as immobile as the Champ.
So there are only a few odd and immobile comps to counter these mayan eagles. Against heavy cav you can at least use monks, too and mass (cav) arches can also pose a threat to them. Mayan eagles hardcounter (cav) archers.
On the other hand eagles are so gold-heavy that the mayan player will run out of gold when spamming them, so he puts himself on a timer with this tech. Either the eagle raids win him the game in the next few minutes or he will lose the game because he is out of gold.
This is what we try to adress with the proposed changes.
So we like to twist it the way that the eagles arenât that abnoxious anymore - reducing the bonus itself, but giving some utility to the other infantry options the mayans have, since mayans are bad in trash fights (even with the new UT).
Why I suggested squires is quite clear: The biggest Issue with the eagles then is their mobility paired with their power, so if the mobility is reduced they become less abnoxious to deal with. So even if you donât have a good counter available you might have the chance to use more mobile units to stop the raids, even if its not optimal.
Why taking away halbs? Because +30 hp pikes are comparable. They have more utility but are also less efficient in protecting the backline because of the lower dps. So we give the mayans something comparable to a free halb upgrade in exchange of the reduced eagle powerspike.
More utility and easier lategame transition for a less abnoxious and often also overpowered and volatile tech.
And I thought everybody in this thread to post should know why the el dorado tech is problematic and understand why we think this is a good approach to fix it.
+40 HP on eagles is OP, as per many. But if I nerf the eagles, the Mayans would be a 1D civ. They have terrible siege support (onagers, bbc and scorpions), they cannot have Cavalry, they have below average monks (monks are often seen as 3rd option, not the 2nd) and they have poor sword line.
The other 2 meso civs have:
Aztecs: good infantry, decent archery range, good siege (faster creation helps in castle age), best monks
Incas: full tech tree with foot archers + slingers, full tech tree with infantry + an infantry UU which deals exceptionally well when massed, decent siege, decent monks
So to nerf the eagles and buff their infantry, it is better to apply extra HP on all infantry units. The problem was 80 HP halbs would be OP, so trimmed the Halberdier upgrade. 75 HP Pikemen will still be strong.
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I checked out the numbers:
Generic Halberdiers against Paladin deals 74 damage before being killed
Pikemen with 75 HP deals 75 HP before being killed
The Paladin being taken in consideration is any Paladin except Celt, Byzantine, Teuton and Lithuanian with 4 relics.
The Celt and Teuton ones wouldnât be much different though.
Against Burmese Cavaliers:
Regular Halberdiers deal 111 damage
Pikemen with 75 HP deal 100 damage
Letâs talk about the Aztec Pikemen and its apathy against heavy Cavalry?
Unfortunately it doesnât work this way, the higher bonus damage is still more valueable cause the paladins donât want to fight them, they want to pass them. But the higher HP adds more frontline utility to the unit which compensates the lower dps: The opponent wonât field pure paladins usually and the more hp pikes could take much more damage from other sources, thatâs where they shine.
I know. They act as good meatshields just like Mongol Hussars, even though Frank LC are better against pierce. I was just replying to his âanti-cavalryâ aspect.
Tanking sure is cute, but what if the enemy just passes by and only takes a few hits? Thatâs the reason Malian pikes suck so hard in imp. Sure they donât die to skirm, but they donât do their job at all anyway. Genoese xbows and camels canât be just ignored, unlike those hypothetic pikes.