Empire Wars - Expand the Ethiopian treatment

Empire Wars is coming to ranked, which I think is an awesome idea. At least for now, if not for ever, I think balance should still be done around RM, ie civs that benefit from EW because they lack a dark age bonus should not get nerfed. (And vice-versa, civs. that suffer from EW because they do have a dark age bonus should not get buffed). Currently, some strong dark age bonuses are being neglected even though they can also exist in EW.

I’ve done some testing today and have seen that civs. that usually start with extra resources don’t in Empire Wars (Aztecs, Persians and Lithuanians; also Incas with their llama). However, Ethiopians get their extra resources as if they had researched feudal age… Considering Ethiopians have to normally do something to get their extra resources (ie research an age), this is very unfair.

However, I’m fine with the Ethiopian treatment, as long as it gets expanded. Aztecs, Persians and Lithuanians (Incas with their llama) should get their extra resources. +150f (Lithuanian bonus) in feudal with 27 vills is already much less worth than 150f in dark age with 3 vills, but it’s still something (significant even). It softens the blow from starting in feudal.


Where did you get the info of EW coming to ranked matchmaking? Is it already in PUP or something?

Edit: nevermind, found the blog post:

They are also removing DM from the ranked queues.
I think they should’ve left DM as it is and just add EW on top, but just RM and EW is not too bad either.

On topic:

I think the civs should stay as they are and as meta develops they can balance the outlier civs accordingly.


It’s just gonna be a mess to balance all the civs for RM and Empire Wars.
Let’s see how it goes :stuck_out_tongue:

Edit: An easy way would be to give each civ for Empire Wars a small amount of additional starting res (like Persians do in dark age). The amount can be determined by winrate.


In my opinion, if EW ends also with low number of players, they could try a cycling ranked mode in which less popular modes such as EW, DM or battle royale rotates periodically. This would increase the number of fan players coming to their beloved modes in a shorter period, and thus the match making system would work better.

On topic: Agree about the Ethiopian case. They still would receive extra resources in castle and imperial, and it is easer to reach that state in EW. it would be a similar case to Italians: their ageing up bonus for feudal is “wasted” in EW but they still have 2 more discounts for them.

However, I wonder about the huns case… do they start with houses and equal wood? That would be unfair…


I love to see EW now added in Ranked!
Let’s see how the community will embrace it.

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Don’t forget the Goths ■■■■■■ loom bonus (+50 gold)

Empire wars is just a balance mess since everything that is normally balanced around having to go through dark age with a low ressource start just becomes OP. So they had to disable the bonuses you mentioned, the Chinese and Mayans also get the same number of villagers and res as everyone else. But then it’s still not finished. You mentioned Ethiopian, but Vikings will dominate the ladder because rather than having to wait through dark age they literally start with wheelbarrow researched and a bunch of farms. Guess what happens next.

I feel like either a bunch of civs will be OP, or they will start disabling so much bonuses it will be awkward for players to play in EW when many bonuses they are used to are disabled without the tech tree mentioning anything about it. I hope that at least they won’t start trying to change whole civilizations based on EW, I don’t want civilizations to be changed for such a novelty game mode.

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Think its probably best to just balance off RM the just let some civs be poor. Basically no different compared to what DM was which is what it’s replacing and also similar as say for example nomad

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Does anybody checked how burgundians start in EW?
Technically they have feudal eco upgrades in dark age. Do burgundians start EW with all feudal eco upgrades researched? I hope they don’t.

They aren’t treated different than any other civ.

And that’s right, cause in standard game the fact that they still have to pay for their techs is the tradoff for potentially getting them earlier.

They don’t. Just like if you start in the imperial age (happens in the campaign) the cavalier upgrade isn’t researched yet despite what the bonus would let you think.

Adding EW is GREAT idea.
As for balance issues , i dont think its gonna be mess as some ppl argued about.While playing 1v1 arabia or arena most of the civ’s water bonuses arent getting any spot anyway.
Many civs will have some extra place where they can put their bonuses or techtree to play-out.I’d love to see EW ranked era in ladders.And how will it change things.
Personally i didnt play it so much as i couldnt find so many players in queue but whenever i played ı got GREAT ENJOY :))) Focusing millitary strategies rather then luruing deers xD 900 times better.
TY Microsoft :)))

Aren’t many of them allrdy in that way ? (Franks,Celts etc ?)

How about water bonuses where there is no water ? isn’t same ?

None forcing you to play civs that are losing their potential are they ?

They dont or at least i hope so.

I dont think so. Many civs has some other bonuses that can play out this viking stuff allrdy.
Playing 1v1 Arabia cumans,turks,tatars (literally all turkic civs) suck so hard yet some ppl still like to play them . Portoguese still lack many options in open land maps yet there are many ppl including me xD likes to play them.And sometimes when u use some unexpected strategies even civs that is seen bad can outplay superior civs like franks,mongols,aztecs.I saw Viper playing turks against mongols in ‘‘VALLEY’’ 1v1 ranked he outplayed mongols by using his sipahi cav archers perfectly … So let EW go on :wink:

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I wont worry to much about the current balance for EW. I expect some balance changes related to EW in the next next patch, when the EW ranked goes live. Certain balance changes are already done in the past, like no extra vills. And if it wont happen next patch, then we just need to wait for a month. Than the devs also will have some data from the ladder.

Currently i am more concerned about the ranking, to great balance match up then civ balance for EW. If the rankings are way off, then all matches are one sided and civ balance has almost no impact on the outcome. So i really hope the devs will fix the issues with the ranking first. To me that will be a bigger issue.

EW is a pretty new game mode. We have seen some games from RWB tournaments, but i think that isnt enough to have a set meta. The meta also determine which civs really be strong. So having some civs that are maybe OP in the first month(s) isnt really that bad. Just give it some time and the civ balance would be fine.