Envoys broken OP now

Easiest fix would be to make them cost gold. I honestly like that they are somewhat useful now, so it shouldn’t be a total nerf.

i disagree here, coin cost would mean you could spam them indefinitely while defending using your bank income. sure its limited to 5 of them but they’d be sooo annoying

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It would kill the lame.
You won’t win late games by spamming them.

They are a scouting and economic unit, they shouldn’t be militarily viable at all.

If they limited the new native settlement capturing to civilian units only, Envoys could have more significant use in getting alliances. Giving them the ability to collect treasures and build Trading Posts would also greatly improve their scouting potential. Maybe even improvements to give them stealth, or receive economic shipments.

On a side note, on European maps, there should be a treasure equivalent to the trapped Native Scout, but with an Envoy instead.

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that’s not the issue, the point is that an essentially free unit with high hp and no unit tags spammed into “multiplier dependent” age 2 rush armies (such as china or russia, somewhat aztec) these punchy dudes with wooden shoes can just tank so much damage, tc fire and a few skirms mops up the units. Its not an issue of 50 minute games, its that it is so much hp for so cheap for early defensive play. Dutch is already a strong defensive civ and this exacerbates the issue

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This dutch envoys are better than spanish dogs!

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400 HP if you send pioneers, not bad for 50 food.

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I tried this yesterday, build market imeadiatly, did the upgrades, send the pioneers card as first shipment, but to be honest its not OP at all, the opponents just can move the vill that is dying away or just do one in tc and your envoys will very much die from that, the loss of settler training and first card slot do not make up for the idle time of a few settlers for opponent.

Surprised no one has commented yet on the new native lame from the inca. It’s very hard to scout because the good players don’t build the native tp until the last moment and the unit spam is ridiculous. Perhaps other civs can do it but I’m only seeing it from the inca so it must particularly affect them.

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Honestly these are the kind of problems created by a random tweak because every patch must come with a random tweak out of nowhere. Sooner or later it causes problems.

Envoys are dutch scouts and no one uses them after initial one dies. Why randomly messing with that?

The easiest way out is reversing this tweak, but I’ve got a feeling they will just add an infantry tag as you said.

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Well it’s the only thing they can do that’s half decent and it’s map dependent since everything else of the inca has been nerfed into oblivion.

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Half decent? That’s funny… It seems really decent to me.

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Map dependent so it’s not able to be relied upon, apart from that inca are absolute trash because the devs have nerfed them into irrelevance.

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I guess that is the reason…
But giving them some combat strength is not a good way to make them more useful because it is not intended to be a combat unit (remember native scout rush?)

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I really like to use natives with several civs, France, Spain (sometimes with log), China, Hausa/Ethio, even Germany or Dutch…

None feel nearly as powerful as the Inca rush.

Only france is strong once you accumulate the improvements of the cards, but not are fast like Incas.

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It depends on the map but it is more than decent, with 2 natives options it is very strong and forces you to be prepared and defend very well without errors.

2 + 1 native alliance and u has 8-12 units (free pop) in one military shipment in age II.

Not comment in Unknown map with 4-5 native tps are absolut crazy!

But it is true that Inca needs other viable strats, not just the native rush, needs an anti-artillery option and a good macemen buff among other things.

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8 damage is nothing, the Envoys arent OP at all. At most perhaps add a 0.5 modifier against settlers but even then I dont see how the Envoy is OP.

They should get stealth. Stealthed scouts are awesome for map control, it would fit the dutch defensive style very well.

They are envoys.

They should be able to build TP and Native Embassies.

Maybe be able to build Native Embassies for free like architects as unique gimmick.

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A non tagged abstract unit with 270 hp and 8 damage for only 50f is indeed op and can punch your vills and falconets to death.

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